We really should be able to glamour other jobs' sets

[Iscah]

I've yet to see a single compelling argument against having no restrictions.

The likely actual argument is a technical one. They probably cannot selectively make some designs free for all while keeping others (eg. job artifact gear) locked down. Or maybe they can't even allow glamouring without the gear being made equippable. I think their behaviour just make more sense if you start from this assumption, whether you agree with the outcome or not.

And I think it's clear that they're happy to share some designs around while keeping others locked down. There are some outfits that they regularly share from one class to another, either through new role-specific sets or replica gear like the sky pirate sets, but even then there are individual outfits that just don't pass the barrier between light and heavy outfits. Other outfits never get shared around, but the whole set of gear gets reused without any reconfiguration, and these are usually the ones that followed the role designs most strictly: armour for tanks, light gear for DPS, robes for mages.

So the closest thing to an argument is that they likely will not unlock everything because there are things they want to keep locked down, even if they do sometimes make exceptions to their own design rules, and they possibly cannot release things selectively.

And they always have, always will recycle sets, so hypothetically convincing them to free up glamour restrictions wouldn't stop them from continuing to do that. So the argument that "they're only keeping things locked down so they can recycle it for other classes later" doesn't really work – especially when we've just had a whole expansion of gear they don't want to shuffle.

[Tigerlilley]

The likely actual argument is a technical one. They probably cannot selectively make some designs free for all while keeping others (eg. job artifact gear) locked down.

Except, this isn't true in the slightest. They completely unlocked Sky Pirate sets and the world didn't fall apart. They've unlocked the marriage and gold saucer sets. They also opened the ARR monk sets for ninja to equip when ninja was released rather than go back and make seperate scouting sets for all the old dungeons.


And no, I meant Skalla, which is currently in Endwalker as crafted white gear, apologies on the spelling, point still stands.

[Tigerlilley]

I don't know about a new player, but within the overall design I think it looks like they have started with the base idea of "black stylish gear" and shaped each type towards the common style of each role. The "heavy" roles have tended towards practical trenchcoats; monk gets sleeveless gear again; aiming/scouting does look "ranger-y" and mages get frilly collars and ornate sleeves and embroidery.

And why should this be the standard, forever? Why should Aiming and NINJAS always look like rangers, why should Dancer have to suffer for this?

Sleevless gear for Monk AGAIN. Do you not think we're hard sick of it? We got one dress that we shared with healer (?) and that was great. Then never again. How does the Edengrace sets fit into your ideal here? They don't. And the world didn't fall apart and no one complained.

Pic, again: Monk sharing aesthetic with healer and caster with ninja. This is not a technological problem.



Mages frilly collars and embroidery, does this suit Summoner? Do long white robes suit Scholar and Sage? NO.

Everyone has been pidgeonholed in the same old designs for 10 years. Enough is enough. FREE THE GLAM.

[Iscah]

Except, this isn't true in the slightest. They completely unlocked Sky Pirate sets and the world didn't fall apart.

That actually is exactly what I'm talking about when I'm saying it's a technical issue and not just a gear appearance issue.

They couldn't just "unlock" glamouring of the existing sky pirate sets. They had to create a new set with a different list of who is able to equip it. At a system level, you still cannot equip the original level 60 gear and the game program regards it as an independent item, even though to our eyes it is the same thing.

Instead of asking for "everything" to be unlocked, which I don't think will ever happen, I think it's more productive to be asking for more specific set unlocks like this. Apparently the devs have indicated in the past that they would be willing to do it for some sets if there is demand, but we've seen nothing since the sky pirate sets.

They've unlocked the marriage and gold saucer sets. They also opened the ARR monk sets for ninja to equip when ninja was released rather than go back and make seperate scouting sets for all the old dungeons.

The marriage and GS unlocks are a different issue again: creating gear models for the opposite gender. Once they've done that, it doesn't affect anything about which classes can equip the gear.

And again, adding ninja to the early striking sets is about equippability. Ninja can equip those pieces, not glamour them while being unable to use them directly.

And why should this be the standard, forever? Why should Aiming and NINJAS always look like rangers, why should Dancer have to suffer for this?

They clearly have their thoughts on what each role should look like as an overall pattern, regardless of whether I agree with it. They might vary from it sometimes, but the overall drift is a clear style preference for each role, and I expect they will continue to tend towards it. They can't subvert it every time or it stops being a thing.

And I actually think dancer has a lot of gear that works for it – and I do include aiming gear, not just all-class gear (though I don't see a real divide as long as you can equip things that work for the role). It's honestly one of my favourite jobs to assemble glamours for. Tome gear has favoured the heavier ranger/armoured look but I think dungeon and crafted gear has favoured dancer.

Sleevless gear for Monk AGAIN. Do you not think we're hard sick of it? We got one dress that we shared with healer (?) and that was great. Then never again. How does the Edengrace sets fit into your ideal here? They don't. And the world didn't fall apart and no one complained.

"No one complained"? Did you not see how indignant some people got – and still get – that just once they dared to give striking DPS a dress instead of their usual gear style? Myself not included, but some others remain bitter about this particular set – so it seems like the devs are damned if they do, damned if they don't make sets that deviate from the expected styles. Someone will always be unhappy about it.

There are only ever three or four actual designs per gear series. Sometimes they clearly made those few designs with particular classes in mind, and other jobs just get the leftovers because they need to get something. Edengate has an "angelic" tendency to the designs (in keeping with the visuals of Eden itself) and they decided to reflect that in the gear style.

Perhaps behind the scenes, the costume designer drafted a number of options including some more melee-oriented ones, but ultimately it was decided that two of the mage options were worth making and they could just get shared to striking and scouting to make up the numbers.

Ultimately it comes down to that every role needs gear and every gear needs an appearance, and sometimes there isn't one that perfectly suits it. They are willing to share around some designs, and this evidently is one of them. But that still doesn't mean they can just let everyone access every design – again, whether this is a thematic issue for them or simply a technical one.

Mages frilly collars and embroidery, does this suit Summoner? NO.

It... isn't? Really? I don't see what's specifically un-summoner-ish about the Type-53 top. Though summoner has a pretty vague style identity in any case, besides "silly-looking horn headgear".

And ultimately, its role-based. The role-based glamours do (or should) vary between providing things that suit different classes within the role. The short coat suits the healers that aren't suited to robes.

[LisSquid]

"No one complained"? Did you not see how indignant some people got – and still get – that just once they dared to give striking DPS a dress instead of their usual gear style? Myself not included, but some others remain bitter about this particular set – so it seems like the devs are damned if they do, damned if they don't make sets that deviate from the expected styles. Someone will always be unhappy about it.

I think that's kind of a vote in favor of unlocking the glam options, no? Every tier isn't going to be something you like, and set envy is real. I think, especially with something like savage sets, you earned it so you can glam it.

And ultimately, its role-based. The role-based glamours do (or should) vary between providing things that suit different classes within the role. The short coat suits the healers that aren't suited to robes.

In full agreement. This gives a full range of looks, provided each job in the set can have a bone thrown their way (sorry, Dancers, SE has been so very cruel). I don't see why we can't add some sort of system to remove role restrictions from non-AF sets when used within the glamour chest, though.

[Iscah]

I don't see why we can't add some sort of system to remove role restrictions from non-AF sets when used within the glamour chest, though.

Again I think it's a technical issue. The glamour dresser ultimately is not so much a "new" system as a very complicated add-on to the old system. It lets us store and organise glamours in a way that the basic prism method can't, but its final output is to apply a glamour to gear as if you had used a prism.

It affects storage and application, but once it has applied that "this gear has been glamoured as X" label, that's where it influence ends. It has not touched the way that the rest of the system handles the instruction to display X when the gear is equipped, or the rules applied to whether X is available to be seen on your current class.

This all suggests to me that, since they didn't want to alter the original system and instead chose to build around it, it might be something too hard to tinker with.

[LisSquid]

snip

Yeah, I definitely think this is the core of it. Does make you think, with so many new items get put into the game, that seeking to invest in a less memory intensive system would be a net gain for all around. Probably the only way to see role unlocked glam, as to make true role-unlocks is to create an entirely different set (replica sky pirate).

[Tigerlilley]

That actually is exactly what I'm talking about when I'm saying it's a technical issue and not just a gear appearance issue.

They couldn't just "unlock" glamouring of the existing sky pirate sets. They had to create a new set with a different list of who is able to equip it. At a system level, you still cannot equip the original level 60 gear and the game program regards it as an independent item, even though to our eyes it is the same thing.

Do you work for SE? Do you understand their backend? No. You're wildly speculating. This is like when every request on the forum was answered with "PS4 limitations".

Perhaps behind the scenes, the costume designer drafted a number of options including some more melee-oriented ones, but ultimately it was decided that two of the mage options were worth making and they could just get shared to striking and scouting to make up the numbers.

You have also completely made this up.

And again, adding ninja to the early striking sets is about equippability. Ninja can equip those pieces, not glamour them while being unable to use them directly.

My point here was that they didn't have to make an entire set for ninja. Again, you have no idea how the back end works. This is such a poor excuse for defending mediocrity from SE. Boohoo, something might be too hard.

And I actually think dancer has a lot of gear that works for it – and I do include aiming gear, not just all-class gear (though I don't see a real divide as long as you can equip things that work for the role). It's honestly one of my favourite jobs to assemble glamours for. Tome gear has favoured the heavier ranger/armoured look but I think dungeon and crafted gear has favoured dancer.

This is an absolute reach. I get that there are white knights on this forum hell-bent on defending everything SE does, but, really. Come on. Is it so hard to accept that people want something new and improved in the game?

"No one complained"? Did you not see how indignant some people got – and still get – that just once they dared to give striking DPS a dress instead of their usual gear style?

I've mained monk since beta. I saw no one complain about that dress. Everyone was so suprised.

It... isn't? Really? I don't see what's specifically un-summoner-ish about the Type-53 top. Though summoner has a pretty vague style identity in any case, besides "silly-looking horn headgear".

And ultimately, its role-based. The role-based glamours do (or should) vary between providing things that suit different classes within the role. The short coat suits the healers that aren't suited to robes.

Your opinion, which is, like the rest, only your opinion. Can you not see by 13 pages of people asking for unlocked glamour that maybe the majority disagree with you? Yoshi P has said plenty of things weren't possible and then they later changed it. Remember the uproar about cooldown resets? He fought back against that for years. Actual years. Then we wake up one day and hey, our cooldowns reset on a wipe. Almost like they have a paid team of professional programmers that figured out a solution. MAGIC.

[Iscah]

Do you work for SE? Do you understand their backend? No. You're wildly speculating.

I do not work for SE, but everything I stated there was true.

We CANNOT glamour the level 60 Sky Pirate sets to other roles. That is a fact. They remain locked to their individual roles.

We can only glamour the level 1 Replica Sky Pirate sets. They are treated as separate items in the system. You can look up fan database sites like Garland Tools or Eorzea Collection and they are classified as independent items with a shared model.

You have also completely made this up.

I thought the "perhaps" made that clear.

This is an absolute reach. I get that there are white knights on this forum hell-bent on defending everything SE does, but, really. Come on. Is it so hard to accept that people want something new and improved in the game?

Is it so hard to accept that I might genuinely think there is gear that works for dancer? People keep talking as if there's nothing but trenchcoats and armour for ranged gear, and dancer has absolutely nothing to wear except their job gear, but there's actually a decent amount of things to work with.

I dug out and updated my list of pieces I like or think could be useful for dancer gear. It's not all "job-styled" gear but a mix of that, puffy shirts, bright colours, drapes that look nice in motion.

AIMING-SPECIFIC
Lv32 Infantry Shirt / Lv49 Raptorskin Shirt
Lv50 Ballad
Lv50 Shikari / Lv56 Ramie
Lv60 Torrent (dress, sleeves)
Lv60 Lost Thief
Lv70 Rakshasa (long skirt, shoes)
Lv70 Brightlinen
Lv71 Lakeland
Lv75 Ravel Keeper
Lv76 Ovim Wool Tunic
Lv80 Warg Sarouel
Lv80 Paglth'an
Lv80 YoRHa Type-51
Lv80 Facet
Lv80 Neo-Ishgardian
Lv80 Exarchic
Lv85 Palaka
Lv86 Last Unicorn v2
Lv90 Classical Sagittarius
Lv90 Limbo/Asphodelos

PVP Last Unicorn (skirt, sandals, arm gear)
PVP Oschon
PVP Republican Sagittarius
PVP Makai Markswoman


ALL-CLASS GLAMOUR
Ao Dai
Boulevardier
Bunny tights/pumps
Dalmascan Draped set
Oasis - maybe the top, but particularly the female pants
Riviera Doublet
Riviera Dress
Southern Seas Skirt
Spring Dress
Taoist
Thavnairian Bustier set
Thavnairian Bolero set
Thavnairian Wool Autumn Dress
Ti Leaf Lei


RACE GEAR
Auri Gown
Elezen Gown
Elezen Hempen Camise
Hyuran Chemisette
Viera pieces


MOG STATION
Eastern Lord/Lady's Togi
Eastern Socialite's Cheongsam
Endless Summer Top
Faerie Tale Princess - underskirt, tiara, shoes
Faire Joi
Far Eastern (various)
Gosetsu's hakama
High Summoner's Dress
Lady Errant
Lord's/Lady's Suikan
Mun'gaek set, especially pants
Songbird/Seneschal
Southern Seas Swimsuit
Summer's Flame set
Yukata (various)


THINGS THAT AREN'T REALLY DANCERY BUT COULD WORK
Lv40 Altered Woolen Shirt / Lv41 Vigil / Lv50 Divine Light / Lv52 Holy Rainbow Shirt
Lv50 Amon pieces
Lv54 Dhalmelskin
Lv65 Nomad pants
Lv74 Atrociraptorskin
Pagos Shirt
Expeditioner's Tabard
Falconer's Shirt
Spring Shirt
Valentione Rose dress
Makai Marksman works surprisingly well for battle. Still good movement with the long coat.

I'm not wanting this to be controversial. I just think there's a lot of cool stuff out there that people are overlooking.

[Raikai]

I do not work for SE, but everything I stated there was true.

We CANNOT glamour the level 60 Sky Pirate sets to other roles. That is a fact. They remain locked to their individual roles.

We can only glamour the level 1 Replica Sky Pirate sets. They are treated as separate items in the system. You can look up fan database sites like Garland Tools or Eorzea Collection and they are classified as independent items with a shared model.

I mean, the idea that there are technical walls keeping them from doing otherwise still exists, but in the case of the Sky Pirate set, my guess is that replica was merely intended to separate those items from the old items, so they could recycle them adding more rewards to the whole Ishgard Restoration for very little effort (they won't even dye differently) - that term "replica" has been used before, but still class-locking items (like the dreadwyrm sets, or the dyeable level 80 DoH/L items).

Like, if they chose (and had means) to made the Sky Pirate sets "All Cass", they would have to figure out something else to add for the Ishgard R. crafters.