Dark Knights are an absolute joke and I'm tired of pretending they're not

[Colt47]

snip

Well, lets just be frank and say that MP management has been simplified to the point of being a flex cooldown slot. In a vacuum you're right that the use of MP for TBN isn't a problem, but when someone is trying to make sure they are hitting all the skills at the right moment, there's no other job that makes someone have to glance at an MP bar at where-ever it is on their screen just to make sure they aren't eating up the last bit of energy they have before a tank buster.

Watching people play DRK and even watching myself, there are times where we think we know our own regeneration and just start trying to pattern out how to use the FoD, only to overcap because we want to have that 3000 mp for TBN up. And sometimes players just drown in all the OGCDs and forget they even capped on the MP. That's sort of the problem with DRK right now compared to all the other jobs. I think there was a youtuber who made a comment along the lines of "I don't think the designers for the classes talk to each other and whoever does the dark knight design is like, over there in the far corner of the room."

[Shurrikhan]

..

It still seems odd to me that something would be "simplified to the point of being a flex cooldown slot" (3.33 charges) and difficult/nebulous enough that people would "overcap because [they] want to have that 3000 mp for TBN" (i.e., leave themselves 2.33 charges more than they need). I really don't feel like DRK's MP (or, 3.33 3-way shared-cooldown charges, if you prefer) causes any significant cognitive load. It certainly seems less than keeping in mind, for instance, whether a given minute on GNB will have a full burst, a full lull, or a Bloodfest lull. Arguably, ShB Nascent Flash, too, had far more going on than just saving 1 out of 3.33 charges of a shared cooldown.

[Shurrikhan]

Remember how stormblood DRK was the greatest dungeon tank? All that self sustaining power...

Those were the days.

Given the damage it had to sacrifice for that, DRK still wasn't the greatest dungeon tank. Even back in Stormblood, that was still Warrior.

...DRK was far and away the most fun, though, imo. (Though WAR and PLD were both... pretty damn awesome back then, too -- and both more interesting than their current versions, I think.)

It arguably even included the last truly interesting use of resource-juggling we've seen in this game.

[SoulSamurai]

TBN- keep as is but remove flood bonus and change to
shield broken 500p heal 250p damage
shield not broken 500p damage


CS and AD change to 30 sec CD and 30 sec duration
CS- 200 MP per auto
AD 200p heal per auto attack received (targetable)

This allows you to change what resources you want to gain and it can be kept on CD and used for either scenario as MT or OT and works well with dungeons and a slight mirror to warrior version

Blood weapon 5 stacks

Living Dead- Same concept except if not healed to 50% MP will reset to 0 (instead of death)

dark mind and oblation combine into 1 skill 20% 2 stacks

[Shurrikhan]

TBN- keep as is but remove flood bonus and change to
shield broken 500p heal 250p damage
shield not broken 500p damage

This would prevent the TBN's refund from AoEing and would reduce its ST damage on break by 54% (from 460p to 250p), all for a heal it may not need. Since not breaking it would deal 40 potency more than Edge, moreover, you'd be obliged to use it nearly on CD as close as possible to breaking, rather than actually wanting to break it. That latter trade-off isn't necessarily a bad idea, but I wonder why you want it.

CS and AD change to 30 sec CD and 30 sec duration
CS- 200 MP per auto
AD 200p heal per auto attack received (targetable)

You want to turn these into essentially 30s-locked-in stances?

At 200 MP per auto, you'd be generating about a third more MP over time. That's a pretty huge potency buff you'd have to reduce DRK's ppm in balance for, since your damage would be balanced around only using the shared cooldown on whatever optimizes damage.

Or, put more simply, this would reduce Edge/Flood banking potential (not necessarily a bad thing gameplay-wise, but a capacity reduction nonetheless) and merely include an option for sacrificing damage for sustain, rather than granting any further sustain. Without TBN's break damage being increased, this seems likely to cost DRK too much damage for any sort of survival increase, even if the maximum increase is potentially huge (with AD potentially healing from auto-attackss for more than those autos' damage), especially given how much sustain is available to the other tanks without sacrificing any damage.

[Vortuna]

I got drk to 90 purely from roulettes, while praying I don't get lvl 81+ dungeons.

[Rhysati]

I'm a sage and my partner is a DRK. We haven't had any issues whatsoever. He can pull as large as he likes and I keep him up better than most other random tanks I have to heal. Combo that with the much higher dps and it's wonderful.

The problem is either your management of cooldowns, your gear, or those of your healer.

[SoulSamurai]

This would prevent the TBN's refund from AoEing and would reduce its ST damage on break by 54% (from 460p to 250p), all for a heal it may not need. Since not breaking it would deal 40 potency more than Edge, moreover, you'd be obliged to use it nearly on CD as close as possible to breaking, rather than actually wanting to break it. That latter trade-off isn't necessarily a bad idea, but I wonder why you want it.

The concept would be to try and add a heal to the mechanic of it but if the shield isnt broken chances are you may not need it but it could be just made like the other classes CD. Just add the heal no matter what and the flood reset or just straight damage added if the shield it broken. The intent was to try and bring in closer the heal sustain. But the heal portion can be added into the AD design i included below.

You want to turn these into essentially 30s-locked-in stances?

At 200 MP per auto, you'd be generating about a third more MP over time. That's a pretty huge potency buff you'd have to reduce DRK's ppm in balance for, since your damage would be balanced around only using the shared cooldown on whatever optimizes damage.

Or, put more simply, this would reduce Edge/Flood banking potential (not necessarily a bad thing gameplay-wise, but a capacity reduction nonetheless) and merely include an option for sacrificing damage for sustain, rather than granting any further sustain. Without TBN's break damage being increased, this seems likely to cost DRK too much damage for any sort of survival increase, even if the maximum increase is potentially huge (with AD potentially healing from auto-attackss for more than those autos' damage), especially given how much sustain is available to the other tanks without sacrificing any damage.

This would be a similar design to older SB tanking where you would have some sort of stance dancing. MP regeneration = DPS increase and for OT use. HP regeneration for sustaining and for MT and OT use. The numbers may need to be adjusted but i was trying to get the concept out. I personally felt the ability to choose which type of resources the DRK needed every 30 or 60 seconds would be cool and give you the option of what "style of tank" you want to be playing because as of now every class plays the same and the only thing in question is how well you know the fight and how well you can mechanic to do you rotation.

[Kalaam]

So the issue is still that if you're not properly geared AND the healer isn't properly geared you are in much more troubles than other tanks.

[DarkDredgen]

So the issue is still that if you're not properly geared AND the healer isn't properly geared you are in much more troubles than other tanks.

No doubt that will not help, but I still think the bigger issue is people not properly utilising their healing/defence kit.

I agree that DRK could use some defensive tweaks, and that it requires a bit more thought and skill compared to other tanks, but I do not think it's as bad as some people make it out to be, no where near it really. Plenty of people have stated they have no issues.

I quite liked a suggestion made by someone in another thread which suggested DRK should just own it's current 'shield tank' character a bit more, perhaps add a 10%-15% damage mitigation to TBN while the shield is up. Perhaps add a 10% shield to oblation with a mild regen? Could also reduce AD CD to 30 seconds maybe? I don't know.

But i'd personally prefer it if they moved in that direction rather than just checking a bunch of HP regeneration at it and further pushing it into WAR territory. Would add some much needed variety.