*Spoilers* Anyone feel joining Emet would have been better

[Cleretic]

Venat genocided her people as well, and we would have had the dragonballs...err...Zodiark to fix everything.

Except that using Zodiark requires sacrificing an absurd amount of life. We can't really put a name on the crime that the third sacrifice would've been, given we don't know the selection process, but we do know that the people in charge of deciding that had no compunctions about causing genocides for Zodiark's sake. ...rather a lot of them, actually.

[KizuyaKatogami]

but we do know that the people in charge of deciding that had no compunctions about causing genocides for Zodiark's sake. ...rather a lot of them, actually.

Except we do know this. We’re told this in the short story. Even the “tempered” convocation was split on the idea of the sacrifices. They didn’t calm down about it until Elidibus ejected from Zodiark and they saw a soul could come out of Zodiark, so i’m not sure where you’re getting this from.

As for the idea that they would continue sacrificing and sacrificing….we’re told via Hythlodaeus that once the 3rd set was done they planned to resume their duties as stewards of the star, there is nothing indicating they would continue sacrificing. For all we know they could have put Zodiark into Pandaemonium afterwards or put him in the center of the star like Hydaelyn was.

[Jandor]

Ere Our Curtain Falls.

This was soon after Zodiark became the will of the star, and our Final Days were averted. The people were divided, unable to decide what to do with the future that now stretched out before them. Many wished to trade the new life which had sprung forth to reclaim those lost in sacrifice to Zodiark. No small number, however, insisted that the fate of our world should be entrusted to those selfsame freshly minted souls. All were at our wits' end.

At once, we saw it, shimmering. It poured out of Zodiark's breast, and resolved into the shape of a man. As he looked us over─mouths agape, no doubt─he gave what passed for an earnest smile.

"Fear...not... You will make...the right choice. And I will see it through."

[Slatersev]

Except we do know this. We’re told this in the short story. Even the “tempered” convocation was split on the idea of the sacrifices. They didn’t calm down about it until Elidibus ejected from Zodiark and they saw a soul could come out of Zodiark, so i’m not sure where you’re getting this from.

As for the idea that they would continue sacrificing and sacrificing….we’re told via Hythlodaeus that once the 3rd set was done they planned to resume their duties as stewards of the star, there is nothing indicating they would continue sacrificing. For all we know they could have put Zodiark into Pandaemonium afterwards or put him in the center of the star like Hydaelyn was.

There's no indication that it was the Convocation that was split, Eldibus is pretty clearly referring to the Convocation on one side and Venat and co on the other.

The only time the Convocation is ever referred to as being hesitant or split on a decision is about Elidibus being the Heart and thats pre Summoning

[KizuyaKatogami]

There's no indication that it was the Convocation that was split, Eldibus is pretty clearly referring to the Convocation on one side and Venat and co on the other.

The only time the Convocation is ever referred to as being hesitant or split on a decision is about Elidibus being the Heart and thats pre Summoning

The french version goes over it. This poster went over it pretty well, just scroll to the elidibus section.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5565636

[AziraSyuren]

Except we do know this. We’re told this in the short story. Even the “tempered” convocation was split on the idea of the sacrifices. They didn’t calm down about it until Elidibus ejected from Zodiark and they saw a soul could come out of Zodiark, so i’m not sure where you’re getting this from.

As for the idea that they would continue sacrificing and sacrificing….we’re told via Hythlodaeus that once the 3rd set was done they planned to resume their duties as stewards of the star, there is nothing indicating they would continue sacrificing. For all we know they could have put Zodiark into Pandaemonium afterwards or put him in the center of the star like Hydaelyn was.

I strongly disagree. I think there's every possible indication that they would've kept going. We were shown that suffering was now inherent and unavoidable in their world, that they couldn't cope with it, and that they were too traumatized to resist the urge to undo it. We were told of (and shown directly in the Dead Ends and Ultima Thule in general) many different races that did that exact same thing and had the exact same problem and there's no reason to believe that the Ancients would've been any more responsible. There's no reason to assume that Hythlodaeus' take on what they would've done is more accurate just because he has a pretty face and kissable lips.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I strongly disagree. I think there's every possible indication that they would've kept going. We were shown that suffering was now inherent and unavoidable in their world, that they couldn't cope with it, and that they were too traumatized to resist the urge to undo it. We were told of (and shown directly in the Dead Ends and Ultima Thule in general) many different races that did that exact same thing and had the exact same problem and there's no reason to believe that the Ancients would've been any more responsible. There's no reason to assume that Hythlodaeus' take on what they would've done is more accurate just because he has a pretty face and kissable lips.

I didnt even mention the latter comment...appearance has very little to do with anything. They suffered in elpis, we see this via sidequests but they did overcome it.They could cope with it, as they even had special funeral rites to help them cope with getting rid of creations. The only thing you can argue they didnt cope with was the final days deaths and really why should they? It was something horrific and out of their control. Why wouldnt you want to undo the mess it caused? Just because we saw a few races succumb to it doesnt mean the ancients would have, by that logic we can say the sundered are the same situation so they should die off as well. Theres no reason to assume hythlodaeus' take is incorrect just because of a few races we saw who werent really much like the ancients. It's strange to me how the constant theme in this game has been hope, and not giving up but so many people are quick to write off the ancients as "oh, they wouldve kept going." With very little to actually support this. The ancients lived for thousands of years without problems. This isnt any different than ironworks not resisting the urge to undo the calamity and so they messed with time.

[AziraSyuren]

I didnt even mention the latter comment...appearance has very little to do with anything.

Nah, I was just telling you why I myself always listened to Hythlodaeus.

Also, it wasn't really a "few" races, it was every other race we saw in the cosmos. All of them unmade themselves, either on their own or with a little push from Meteion.

Just from that cutscene alone, "Deliver unto us the lives we once had. Deliver unto us the days of old."

Not to mention, they were willing to sacrifice themselves and everyone else on Etherys just to bring back who they initially sacrificed, which was horrid enough on its own. If it wasn't for the potential third set of sacrifices, I'd probably have agreed with you, but the fact that it was even a debate showed us that they did go off the deep end.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Nah, I was just telling you why I myself always listened to Hythlodaeus.

Also, it wasn't really a "few" races, it was every other race we saw in the cosmos. All of them unmade themselves, either on their own or with a little push from Meteion.

Just from that cutscene alone, "Deliver unto us the lives we once had. Deliver unto us the days of old."

Not to mention, they were willing to sacrifice themselves and everyone else on Etherys just to bring back who they initially sacrificed, which was horrid enough on its own. If it wasn't for the potential third set of sacrifices, I'd probably have agreed with you, but the fact that it was even a debate showed us that they did go off the deep end.

How is that showing they went off the deep end. Again, people seem to forget Ironworks was willing to do the same thing. They were willing to sacrifice millions to bring us back. Where are you getting the sacrifice everyone on Etheirys? If you’re talking about the rejoining that was not only to bring back those lost, but to rejoin the worlds as well and make the world whole and stable again.We didnt see every race that fell to ruin di dwe? Only a select few in the grand scheme of things. For all we know the unknown ones couldve all been fine until Meteion came along.Regardless though, theres nothing at all pointing to them continuing sacrifices after the 3rd set. For all we know, with the threat gone they could have found ways to supplement zodiark with aether that didnt require death.

Hm. The Convocation's quotes sound like they were about the Final Days, but Azem's inscription is definitely post-sundering. 'Though the world be sundered and our souls set adrift, where you walk, my dearest friend, fate shall surely follow.' Based off of 'Ere Our Curtain Falls', it sounded like their memories were corrupted by body hopping (or in Elidibus' case, being a primal), which was why even the unsundered were having problems remembering themselves.

The french version of Hythlo's dialogue regarding the crystals:
Hythlodaeus : Ceux que vous appelez les Asciens originels en ont créé une pour chaque membre du Concile. Elles renferment des souvenirs liés à ces derniers.
= “Those that you called (Unsundered) original Ascians created one for each member of the Council. They contain memories related to them.”

Hythlodaeus : Hé hé, je te vois venir. Ce ne sont pas des concepts, tout au plus des fragments. Toutefois, elles peuvent se révéler utiles pour raviver la mémoire d'un des Quatorze dont l'âme s'est morcelée.
= “He he, I see you coming around. They are not concepts, but fragments at most. However, they can be useful in reviving the memory of one of the Fourteen whose soul is fragmented.”

English version as well:
High in the heavens, those stars shine their guiding light down upon the lives below. Fitting symbols for the Convocation of Fourteen, would you not agree?

As you will have gathered, each crystal bears an account of the life of a member of the Convocation as remembered by the unsundered.

Lest you worry, they aren't concepts; they are far too incomplete to be so. But they suffice for imbuing memories within sundered souls, that they might be restored to their office.

[Jandor]

There's no reason to assume that Hythlodaeus' take on what they would've done is more accurate just because he has a pretty face and kissable lips.

Or that Hythlodaeus' take on what they would've done was actually Hythlodaeus' take. The only time I can recall Hythlo mentioning the Convocation is in Amaurot, and that's not the actual Hythlodaeus.