What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[OhNooo]

Ultimately, I feel the story ventured too deep into fanservice territory this time around and allowed sentimentality to drive the story in place of logic.

Agreed. Speaking of fan service, even though I do find the ancients interesting, I really don't think they should've had us go back in time to see them at all. It probably would've made more sense to have us use the echo in some way to peer into the unsundered world. But I'm guessing they did that because they knew a lot of people would love it and as soon as I saw those robes with the masks, I knew the rp community was gonna have a field day lol.

And yes, comparing the tone and overall vibe to the storytelling in HW...the fact that to this day when I walk into Ishgard and get this fond little smile and feel like I'm coming home...that says a lot about the impact the expansion has for the whole game. I get so excited when I see new players streaming the game and getting to Ishgard for the first time. There was definitely a more nuanced tone in HW that worked very well, and in my opinion, this more subtle tone turned out to be way more effective for me than the writing style in EW.

One of my favorite scenes is when Estinien is recounting his experience of being taken over by Nidhogg; the irony of two beings basically living in each other's minds, and both of them happen to be consumed by the craving for revenge for what each one of their kind did to the other...it's just so incredibly well done in my opinion. On the other hand, when I look at several of the scenes in EW, you have these emotional scenes with sad or inspirational music that may get you excited or get a reaction out of you at the time but then it just feels kind of hollow when it's over.

ETA: For example: the body swap scene. I remember being on the edge of my seat thinking wow things are finally about to start getting real...and then right when I think something is about to go down here comes Fandaniel like nope that's all you get lol and I was left feeling like they had dangled a small taste of something with potential in front of me and left me feeling confused about the whole point of introducing it in the first place. At first I thought it was going to be brought up again later...but nope we never heard about it ever again.

[Nilroreo]

For example: the body swap scene. I remember being on the edge of my seat thinking wow things are finally about to start getting real...and then right when I think something is about to go down here comes Fandaniel like nope that's all you get lol and I was left feeling like they had dangled a small taste of something with potential in front of me and left me feeling confused about the whole point of introducing it in the first place. At first I thought it was going to be brought up again later...but nope we never heard about it ever again.

Yup lol! This was Zenos time to shine after taking a backseat for a good while. The fact that he immediately blows his cover, gets tackled to the ground, and basically laughs and points at our hopelessness was kind of a tone killer. I'm not exactly begging for major character deaths here, but couldn't someone at least get injured as a result of this? Zenos's entire goal this time is to piss us off hard enough to get us to fight him in a world shattering battle. You'd think he'd want to groom us for our coming battle by give us a little more incentive to go after him, but eh..

[OhNooo]

The fact that he immediately blows his cover, gets tackled to the ground, and basically laughs and points at our hopelessness was kind of a tone killer.

Right. And I can't be the only one who thought it was far-fetched that all we had to do is throw a knife in our non-magical ability having body and it immediately dissipated the avatar. I was like wait what lol

[Theodric]

Yup lol! This was Zenos time to shine after taking a backseat for a good while. The fact that he immediately blows his cover, gets tackled to the ground, and basically laughs and points at our hopelessness was kind of a tone killer.

It seems to be a common problem, unfortunately. Sometimes there's months or even years of build up to a specific moment...and then it almost always wraps up very neatly. Remember how it was portrayed as very dangerous for the Scions to try and return to the Source after finding themselves trapped in the First? Not only do they all conveniently get there unscathed, there's absolutely no lasting consequences to speak of.

A large part of the charm of the earlier worldbuilding involved the weight to various decisions and narrative consequences. JRPG's - and previous Final Fantasy games - weren't afraid to be bold and controversial on many fronts, so I remain baffled as to why FFXIV in particular opts to play things very safe.

[Nilroreo]

It seems to be a common problem, unfortunately. Sometimes there's months or even years of build up to a specific moment...and then it almost always wraps up very neatly. Remember how it was portrayed as very dangerous for the Scions to try and return to the Source after finding themselves trapped in the First? Not only do they all conveniently get there unscathed, there's absolutely no lasting consequences to speak of.

Actually, in this case, I didn't have a major issue with this sequence. They presented an issue with their prolonged stay on the first and G'raha urgently scrambled to find a solution. I never expected any of them to not get back unscathed...except for G'raha.

Imo, 5.3 should've been where his character made his final exit from the story. At the end of the Crystal tower Raid, Everyone decides to strive towards a future where the crystal tower can serve as a symbol of hope and prosperity for future generations. Fast forward to Shadowbringers and G'raha does just that, becoming a sort of father figure for the remnants of a dying world in need of guidance with the crystal tower itself becoming a bastion of safety. He fuses with the Crystal tower to prolong his life and see his mission to completion, and throughout the patches, bloodlets himself which somehow perverts his body further. By the end, he successfully creates auracites that can safely get us back home and then proceeds to fully become one with the crystal tower after all is said and done. G'raha literally fusing with the symbol of hope after having successfully saved the First from complete annihilation was a beautiful end to his character... or atleast it wouldve been had they not dragged him back to the first, had him hijack his own sleeping body (they say both personalities "blended," but cmon, how is this not weird?) reducing him to a submissive shy sidekick.

Something that never quite sat right with me is why he would even want to come back to the source. He's lived for nearly 80ish years on the first, built an entire society from scratch and basically raised a daughter there. For all intents and purposes, the First was the closest thing to a real home he's got, but still decides to come back with us.

A large part of the charm of the earlier worldbuilding involved the weight to various decisions and narrative consequences. JRPG's - and previous Final Fantasy games - weren't afraid to be bold and controversial on many fronts, so I remain baffled as to why FFXIV in particular opts to play things very safe.

You know, it's funny, while I do appreciate the inclusion of the trust system, I feel it might've unintentionally influenced the devs towards minimizing casualties as much as possible. Can't have Y'shtola die for real next time cuz we'd be one DPS short incase Alisaie or Estinien arent available.

[tokinokanatae]

Something that never quite sat right with me is why he would even want to come back to the source. He's lived for nearly 80ish years on the first, built an entire society from scratch and basically raised a daughter there. For all intents and purposes, the First was the closest thing to a real home he's got, but still decides to come back with us.

This will probably get some people annoyed at me--I love G'raha to death, one of my fave characters in the game, but my perspective on him is not the same as a lot of other people's--but I think this makes perfect sense with what hints we get in canon: G'raha doesn't like being the Crystal Exarch.

I actually appreciate the depiction of someone that dislikes almost everything about the role in which he finds himself. Instead of tired lessons about "learning to appreciate the things you have, home is where you have to live for the sake of other people," the reward is to set aside the unrewarding and have the freedom to finally do what you really desire. I agree that there were some characterization bumps along the way, but overall I'm happy with where G'raha ended up in the narrative.

[Nilroreo]

This will probably get some people annoyed at me--I love G'raha to death, one of my fave characters in the game, but my perspective on him is not the same as a lot of other people's--but I think this makes perfect sense with what hints we get in canon: G'raha doesn't like being the Crystal Exarch.

I actually appreciate the depiction of someone that dislikes almost everything about the role in which he finds himself. Instead of tired lessons about "learning to appreciate the things you have, home is where you have to live for the sake of other people," the reward is to set aside the unrewarding and have the freedom to finally do what you really desire. I agree that there were some characterization bumps along the way, but overall I'm happy with where G'raha ended up in the narrative.

Good point. He doesn't really strike me as one that would necessarily love the attention that come with being the father of a new age. and in truth, I don't hate his character in isolation. Hes a great character to just have around.

It's just that there's something really compelling about the last known living descendant of Allag taking the crystal tower, which up until this point had served as a monument to depravity and turning its legacy on its head.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I really enjoyed Graha as the exarch, so personally for me it was extremely sad to see him kind of…brought down to just fanservice and hero worship. Now he’s mainly just used as fodder for “cute” moments or super uber powerful move moment.

[TaleraRistain]

This will probably get some people annoyed at me--I love G'raha to death, one of my fave characters in the game, but my perspective on him is not the same as a lot of other people's--but I think this makes perfect sense with what hints we get in canon: G'raha doesn't like being the Crystal Exarch.

I actually appreciate the depiction of someone that dislikes almost everything about the role in which he finds himself. Instead of tired lessons about "learning to appreciate the things you have, home is where you have to live for the sake of other people," the reward is to set aside the unrewarding and have the freedom to finally do what you really desire. I agree that there were some characterization bumps along the way, but overall I'm happy with where G'raha ended up in the narrative.

Exactly. He was sent to the First to stop the Rejoining and did what was necessary for that but it's not what he wanted. He didn't want to put himself to sleep in the Crystal Tower in the first place either but he saw he had to. And he didn't just instantly go shy when he returned to the Source. He showed that side in ShB when we were alone with him. He fidgeted outside our door bringing us sandwiches. His shy admiration of us came through loud and clear when we sat together in Kholusia. He could just let that out more openly when he didn't have the weight of two worlds weighing on his shoulders. And he does call upon that side of himself when it's needed, as we saw in Thavnair.

[ApolloGenX]

Exactly. He was sent to the First to stop the Rejoining and did what was necessary for that but it's not what he wanted. He didn't want to put himself to sleep in the Crystal Tower in the first place either but he saw he had to. And he didn't just instantly go shy when he returned to the Source. He showed that side in ShB when we were alone with him. He fidgeted outside our door bringing us sandwiches. His shy admiration of us came through loud and clear when we sat together in Kholusia. He could just let that out more openly when he didn't have the weight of two worlds weighing on his shoulders. And he does call upon that side of himself when it's needed, as we saw in Thavnair.

I like him, but his overly timid anime style admiration is tired bordering on creepy. They get it right with Estinien, imo.