Dear SquareEnix/Natsuko Ishikawa - About Zenos in Endwalker *MAJOR MSQ SPOILERS*!

[Tsumdere]

I despise Zenos. He is the sole reason why EW ranks lower than ShB for me. His inclusion completely ruined and dampened a perfect ending. The only good thing about him is that we got to punch him in the face and he said one, singular funny thing in the entire 3 expansions he's been here.
Despite my hate for him and my wish to never see his boring ass again - I do think he's going to come back. I think his connection with the oddly specific and detailed voidsent and lingering mysteries surrounding his power is an easy bridge to a void expansion. It's a tough situation to be in where I hate lingering plot threads that go nowhere, but I would also just love to drop him forever.

[OGChocolateThunder]

Do I think Zenos had a good ending in SB? Absolutely.

Do I think Zenos has a good ending in EW? Absolutely.

Do I think Zenos is dead? Absolutely not.

If I've learned anything about FFXIV and their writers is that they're are especially good at answering any lingering questions or closing up any potential plot holes. From SB until EW, the writers have done nothing but add more and more questions to Zenos character. Why did Elidibus consider him to be an "invaluable test subject"? What did Fandaniel mean by "did Emet-Selch find a way..."? Why has Zenos been dreaming about the Final Days since he was a child? How tf is he so damn strong? What the hell is up with his voidsent? There are just too many unanswered questions regarding his character.

Also being that Zenos is practically the poster boy for the RPR job right now and with all the marketing they put into that, it would be rather ironic for them to hype up the class only to then kill off the only RPR representation we have in the MSQ. It's why I never believed for a moment Alphinaud would die. Not that it wouldn't be sad if he did (it would) but from a marketing standpoint it would be a strange decision and exactly the opposite way you'd want to market a new job, especially when trying to entice new players.

[CygnusSwan]

I feel like Zenos's character arc is fulfilled- he died helping his best and only gravely injured friend escape the end of the universe after fighting them and helping them fight the amalgamation of the universe's despair itself. He filled the void in his heart. There are still mysteries around him and his past, but they can be explored without bringing him back properly. Maybe a side story where you have to go into the Aitiascope again and run into him there, or you end up going to the Imperial Palace ruins for some reason and can learn about his past through flashbacks. I don't know, as someone who became a Zenos fan thanks to EW, I'd prefer he stay dead, as it cheapens that final fight if he were to come back alive. Same reason I'm glad they found a way to bring back Emet-Selch without reviving him, as truly reviving him would cheapen the end of ShB.

I mean, seeing as they're my new favorite characters, I'd personally love if Hythlodaeus or Venat came back, but their sacrifices mean more if they, you know, don't just come back for the sake of pleasing fans. So for the sake of them as characters, it's better they don't. I almost feel like G'raha's big moment in 5.3 was cheapened by him IMMEDIATELY being completely okay, but I guess since while it was happening it was implied he'd be okay anyway it's not as big a deal.

[Elysidelphi]

I feel like Zenos's character arc is fulfilled- he died helping his best and only gravely injured friend escape the end of the universe after fighting them and helping them fight the amalgamation of the universe's despair itself. He filled the void in his heart. There are still mysteries around him and his past, but they can be explored without bringing him back properly. Maybe a side story where you have to go into the Aitiascope again and run into him there, or you end up going to the Imperial Palace ruins for some reason and can learn about his past through flashbacks. I don't know, as someone who became a Zenos fan thanks to EW, I'd prefer he stay dead, as it cheapens that final fight if he were to come back alive. Same reason I'm glad they found a way to bring back Emet-Selch without reviving him, as truly reviving him would cheapen the end of ShB.

I mean, seeing as they're my new favorite characters, I'd personally love if Hythlodaeus or Venat came back, but their sacrifices mean more if they, you know, don't just come back for the sake of pleasing fans. So for the sake of them as characters, it's better they don't. I almost feel like G'raha's big moment in 5.3 was cheapened by him IMMEDIATELY being completely okay, but I guess since while it was happening it was implied he'd be okay anyway it's not as big a deal.

Personally, I think it depends on how and why a dead/seemingly dead character is brought back to life. Both the how and the why are important.

In terms of the how, if a character is shown to be something like a necromancer, or have some sort of power/ability related to death/resurrection, or like in Zenos's case being a Reaper which is related to the voidsent and also having a voidsent pact, on top of being an Ascian (who don't simply die from fights no matter how strong/exhausting the fight/adversary). So if the character already has lore surrounding it that implies a connection to death/the underworld/revival then I am more than happy for that character to come back because to me, it makes sense. It's not out of the blue, it's been built up, explained, etc. And it even makes it interesting. To have a character that can defy death itself but then somehow to write a story involving that character without making that character too overpowered to the point of everything else not making sense anymore. I think that is a challenge to be able to write something like that. And it can be done beautifully by someone talented.

Also the why, why should a dead character return to life. This also matters. And there can be countless reasons, depending on the story and lore. But primarily it's related to that character itself: if that character has several unresolved mysteries around them, if there are all sorts of clues and hints pointing to the possibility of that character returning, if having that character return and then be given a new, different, improved role would actually elevate and improve the story or add more flavour to the story, then I believe that that character should absolutely return. I completely understand and agree that not every single mystery and question in a story must be answered. But to have one character surrounded by multiple mysteries and questions, not just one or two, plus numerous hints, clues, teases, and then to absolutely drop them all and ignore them and move on, now that would be bad, superficial writing, in my opinion. Also, having those numerous mysteries, questions, hints, clues, and teases all answered in a side story or very fast, or by other characters or by the character's ghost in just a few lines, that would also be poor writing.

For example, for me, Y'shtola dying and being brought back to life twice has cheapened her character significantly. She had no major reasons as to why she should return, she has not changed significantly for the better or for the worse, she was not associated with anything related to death/rebirth like necromancy or reaper/voidsent/Ascian stuff. She doesn't do that much in the story, in terms of actions or even knowledge. Her personality has not changed/evolved considerably either. I don't hate her, she used to be one of my favourite Scions, I just feel that she isn't very useful anymore (she used to be a lot more at the start of the story). Maybe she's wasted potential. Either way, she's a disappointment to me. I feel like the DEVs won't kill her off because she's marketable, but they also don't do anything important/major/impactful with her. She's just...kinda there.

G'raha Tia. When he died in 5.3 I was indeed sad and then I was happy when he was back. I don't think his death and subsequent return have cheapened his character as he did a lot in Shadowbringers, he evolved a lot as a character, then he finally joined the Scions/the WoL, something he wanted for a very very long time and then he did help in Endwalker. With G'raha Tia I find there is a lot of potential in terms of his knowledge of the Allagans, but also knowledge of space and time travel, as well as his versatility with his jobs (Paladin and Black Mage). So the way he was handled, the how, was done well in my opnion, and especially the why, why should he be back, I think that's also valid, due to all his knowledge and expertise that will probably come in handy with Meracydia, the Void/the 13th, travelling to other shards, etc.

So yeah, it depends on each character, on the how and why of their return to life.

Even the great writer Tolkien, who was also a Professor of linguistics, killed and then brought back to life several characters like Glorfindel, Gandalf, Beren, Luthien, and Sauron, to name just a few. It isn't a capital sin of writing to kill off a character and then bring him/her back to life. The execution of it all is what matters.

Zenos has this potential to grow and change. If people paid attention to all the details, all the hints and clues, if they made all the connections between them all, it would be obvious to them as well.

When Zenos died the first time, in Stormblood, that is when he was happy to die. He was smiling. He was at peace. He said "Farewell, my first friend, my enemy." He was certain he wanted to die. And he took his own life, with his own hands, all the while smiling. His eyes matched his smile, his voice sounded genuinely happy and ready to die. That is when he was truly happy and at peace with death.

When Zenos died the second time, in Endwalker, he was completely different. He wasn't smiling, he wasn't happy, he wasn't at peace. There was no joy and no peace in his voice. He was pensive, reflecting, he sounded sad, regretful even. Different language versions of Zenos's final dialogue in Endwalker give different results, and it's clear from them that Zenos was sad and regretful and he found no peace in dying this second time. His voice even breaks when he asks the WoL the question "Did you find...fulfillment?", his voice breaks on the word "fulfillment" in ANY language, as if he's on the verge of crying and he's holding back. I've watched that particular scene dozens of times by now, in all the available languages and I am 100% certain that his voice breaks there. He was not happy to die, he had regrets, questions, hesitations, etc.

His two death scenes are extremely different, from his words, questions or lack thereof, tone of voice, facial expressions, gestures, the words he uses, etc. If you compare them carefully and take everything into account you will see all the differences.

For me Zenos is a character with a huge potential, also because he's been with/around us since Stormblood, so similar to the WoL but also so different. More similar to the WoL than other villains. There is a connection there between the WoL and Zenos, a connection that the WoL doesn't have with other villains. I believe that Zenos has the very strong potential to evolve and learn, as shown even in Endwalker where he allowed himself to be moved by Alisaie's words and actually learn something from them. I believe Zenos could become an antihero or even a friend of the WoL, a companion, travelling with the WoL. And I strongly believe that, psychologically speaking, there is extreme value for the audience to see a villain work hard and earn redemption or rehabilitation, actually survive their redemption/rehabilitation arc, and change and improve and become better, wiser, learn to find happiness in other things that are not harmful to others. The message to the audience would be something like "You too can change and improve, no matter your past sins, there is hope for you, you can learn and change your ways and become better." and there is huge value in that, in receiving a message like that from the story one consumes, especially when so many people don't even have real life people to encourage them like that and believe in them and in their capacity for improvement.

The expansion Endwalker was all about finding hope in deepest despair, finding joy in darkness, forgiving and befriending old and new enemies like Emet-Selch, Meteion and even the Omicrons. But not Zenos? Zenos is the only exception here? And he's not even a minor character whatsoever, he's been with us for years, he's been on posters, he's been in the trailer and benchmark, he's received a new job, new outfit, new remodel, he is by no means whatsoever a minor character. But he is the only exception to the hope and forgiveness theme of Endwalker? It makes no sense, no logical sense.

Also, it is implied that Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus will be back in the future. If the game/story going forward incorporates a time skip of some sort, we might very well meet Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus again, as adults/young adults and they may even join us in our adventures. How cool would that be.

[Elysidelphi]

I also understand that people are afraid of the possibility of getting the same, old Zenos back. Zenos as an enemy, forever wanting to fight us the WoL, his only goal, desire and joy in life being a fight to the death with us. I understand that people fear this and don't want it. I myself do not want this. At all.

What I want is for Zenos to come back to life and develop as a character, grow and learn. He might come back directly as a sort of antihero, or he might come back as a villain, but only for a short time and then start on his journey of redemption or rehabiliation (and survive it to the end and beyond, of course). Basically, I want to see him grow and learn and improve as a character, find other reasons to live for besides fighting. I want interesting dialogues with him because he's clearly a smart character. I want to see him reflect, even regret the past maybe, I want to see him struggle with stuff and reach out for help/advice, I want him to overcome stuff especially emotionally/mentally. I want my WoL to fight side by side with him, not against him. I want him to really understand what friendship is, to find joy in little and quiet moments as well. I want him to travel with us, maybe even give us some sassy replies/comments every once in a while. I want to see his mind, his heart, his personality grow, mature, improve. Therein lies his potential, and this is not even taking into account everything else, such as him being a Reaper, his voidsent, his pact, his Ascian powers, his Resonant powers, all the mysteries and questions left unanswered, all the hints, clues and teases about him. There is so much more than can be done with him and it can be done well, I have hope in that.

[KageTokage]

I've been kind of leaning towards a possibility of find our missing answers about Zenos in whatever obligatory Garlemald story arc crops up in the future.

The imperial palace did have an extensive research facility in its depths and it's hard to say just what full extent of what the Garleans or maybe just Emet himself were up to down there given past weirdness like his clones.

Zenos being referred to as a " valuable test subject" by Elidibus makes me wonder if perhaps all three of the unsundered were in on whatever little pet project he was a part of.

[Elysidelphi]

I've been kind of leaning towards a possibility of find our missing answers about Zenos in whatever obligatory Garlemald story arc crops up in the future.

The imperial palace did have an extensive research facility in its depths and it's hard to say just what full extent of what the Garleans or maybe even Emet himself were up to down there given past weirdness like his clones.

Zenos being referred to as a " valuable test subject" by Elidibus makes me wonder if perhaps all three of the unsundered were in on whatever little pet project he was a part of.

It's also shown in the story itself that Varis also engaged in various experiments, Emet-Selch is the one who says this about Varis to Varis himself. So it would be interesting to see what everybody experimented on, and why and such.

However, I still want Zenos back, alive and well. A Garlemald arc would not answer everything about Zenos, such as his Resonant powers and his ability to control them so fast and well, his Reaper job, why he chose it, how he made the pact, who his avatar/voidsent is, etc. And again, there are simply too many questions surrounding him to simply leave them in the air and be like "Oh well, it's good to have some mystery." There is a difference between leaving some mystery and leaving loose threads and plotholes.

[LttN]

Are we sure the OP isn't a WHM main? Cuz they sure are holier than thou.

[nighttimebunny]

Are we sure the OP isn't a WHM main? Cuz they sure are holier than thou.

uhh how exactly?

[Kordarion]

uhh how exactly?

Saying that the only reason people don't like Zenos is because they haven't read enough about him/delved into obscure lore and that asserting that Zenos will return as a "good guy" despite Zenos himself outright saying that isn't who he is and the fact that Zenos got a satisfying end to his arc but that the OP won't accept so.