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  1. #11
    Player
    Duskane's Avatar
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    May 2018
    Location
    isnt it messed up that goblet is a housing area and not a tiny goblin
    Posts
    4,163
    Character
    Dusk Himmel
    World
    Ravana
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Guts is... an XIV Warrior, just with a sword and less bare skin, though?

    He's a purely physical berserker who unleashes his (far from merely metaphorical) inner beast for incredible strength and tenacity. He gets angry, trading sanity for power, while reining it in through drive, purpose, and determination, exactly as per the 1.x and ARR questlines' take on Warrior.

    Might that indicate that DRK has always stepped into Warrior's thematic grounds? Well, yeah. It's always been the bastard job. But it worked for precisely that reason, placing its emphasis less on that it has a big weapon and can swing it, etc., than on its mindset -- on being the unapologetic, rule-less bastard (of the "I reject your reality and, to a subtle degree, literally substitute my own" persuasion). Void magic is the magic of pure disorder, activity, overwhelming creation, befitting the highly anti-authoritarian DRK whose inner power is less "beastly" than simply "done (with all these false trappings and worthless rules)."

    And as far as a combat aesthetic, Guts again leaves us with ambiguity. Is he the slower, plodding fighter of the original anime and somewhat implied by earlier episodes? Or is he the speed-dashing, speed-slashing, wolf-panther-man-thing in black armor we see later on? Granted, magic manipulation of one's blade (admittedly, more MSK territory than DRK) can allow for both via some new take on Blood Weapon or Delirium or the like, but if it comes merely from power-surging, especially if off anger... that's again just... Warrior.

    Personally, I don't think there's any existing character, at least that I've yet seen, that quite fits the open spaces available to DRK given the tanks preceding it. In terms of personality and combat tactics (if taken somewhat abstractly), Trevor Belmont, oddly enough, comes closest among obvious examples. (Guts would, for his messed-up world and its lack of comparable magic, fit almost as much as a Paladin and even more the niche of a Warrior, while the likes of Dante is just a perfect Gunbreaker in his speedy tech-and-tactics mixing).


    The "weird squat", though lower than typical (perhaps to emphasize the weight of the blade), is a very typical guard for especially long two-handed blades. Decreasing your exposed area, meanwhile, is common to nearly all martial arts.

    If we were allowed more than one resting pose, you'd likely see a more casual resting pose (such as near to the side of one's head, hilt over or against shoulder, not far off from vertical) mixed in, but it'd offer less ready protection and thus would only be complementary.
    yeah ok but Dark Knight main inspiration was Berkserk/Guts and even Clouds buster sword was inspired by berserk
    big reason why so many Dark knights paid tribute to Miura's death
    (1)

  2. #12
    Player
    Ultaniku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    418
    Character
    Jojo Ryder
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 97
    The various Claymores and their abilities. I know it’s not a 100% perfect fit for DRK, but I just love Claymore.
    (2)

  3. #13
    Player Caurcas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    1,527
    Character
    Caur Kagon
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Guts is... an XIV Warrior, just with a sword and less bare skin, though?

    In terms of weapon choice and armor vibe, sure. But there's just nothing to how he fights, his powers, nor what sources his powers that wouldn't better define him solidly as an XIV Warrior. The distinction rests, paper-thin, on the Armory Chest and "inner beast" and the "thrill of battle" (Gut's core components) having been tied solely to greataxes, rather than being available to a great sword.

    In terms of animations, it's a mixed bag, but again mostly favors Warrior or its source Marauder (which he literally was, earlier in life), if we constrain the MRD skills to those you could use with a sword. Fell Cleave and Skill Splitter are far more Guts than Bloodspiller, Hard Slash, Syphon Strike, Carve and Spit, or the like. (Probably the most frequent strikes he's used across the manga were simply DRK's cross-classed Savage Blade, a simple rising diagonal cut, and Skull Splitter, a simple mostly vertical falling strike.) He hits hard, with no care for fanciness. He presents no noisy aftereffects outside of blood spurts.

    DRK is cool. Guts is cool. But Guts is no XIV DRK; he's a Warrior with a big sword and black armor.
    Bloodspiller is literally lifted from the panel of Guts' fight with Grunbled. It's the strike that sundered his warhammer and went into his shoulder. Furthermore Living Dead is basically lorewise the same as the Berserker armor in that it just kind of holds you together so you can keep swinging for a bit longer.
    (1)

  4. #14
    Player Soge01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,406
    Character
    Waira Amarilla
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Terranort from Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep. The way he fights Aqua with Guardian sprouting out from behind him mid fight is something I'd love to see adapted into Dark Knight.



    Changing Dark Knights Living Shadow into a sort of ability that lets Dark Knight summon Living Shadow and attack exactly at the same time you do, like how Ninja's Shadow Clone ability works, instead being a seperate summon mechanic like the way it is now and can even act as an extra shield used either on yourself or your allies when commanded, that also let's Living Shadow do an auto counter attack equivalent to the amount of damage it was struck with, combined with it's normal damage output.
    (0)
    Last edited by Soge01; 01-15-2022 at 01:43 PM.

  5. #15
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,905
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Caurcas View Post
    Bloodspiller is literally lifted from the panel of Guts' fight with Grunbled. It's the strike that sundered his warhammer and went into his shoulder.
    In the only version that'd, by necessity, give enough panels to tell what the hell the sword is doing to that extent, the fight is literally Plunge, DRK Skull Splitter, DRK Skull Splitter, and then Plunge with a horizontal twist instead of a front-flip. At no point does he just spin his sword once at let gravity, alone, take it, as per Bloodspiller. He adds his own weight behind and muscle to each strike.

    Furthermore Living Dead is basically lorewise the same as the Berserker armor in that it just kind of holds you together so you can keep swinging for a bit longer.
    That's literally the same as Holmgang. And given how little on-demand healing is available to Guts, and how long he's typically wounded after using the Berserker armor, he sure as hell isn't being quickly healed to full to avoid a Doom state.

    Again, love the character, but gap-closer aside, his powers and source of powers (his kit and lore) are almost pure Warrior (the Berserker), not Dark Knight.
    (2)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 01-15-2022 at 04:23 PM.

  6. #16
    Player Caurcas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    1,527
    Character
    Caur Kagon
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    In the only version that'd, by necessity, give enough panels to tell what the hell the sword is doing to that extent, fight is literally Plunge, DRK Skull Splitter, DRK Skull Splitter, and then Plunge with a horizontal twist instead of a front-flip. At no point does he just spin his sword once at let gravity, alone, take it, as per Bloodspiller. He adds his own weight behind and muscle to each strike.


    That's literally the same as Holmgang. And given how little on-demand healing is available to Guts, and how long he's typically wounded after using the Berserker armor, he sure as hell isn't being quickly healed to full to avoid a Doom state.

    Again, love the character, but gap-closer aside, his powers and source of powers (his kit and lore) are almost pure Warrior (the Berserker), not Dark Knight.
    The lore of DRK fits better as it's basically in a sense the the only job that deals with the WoL's trauma and trying to work through it. Kind of the central theme of Berserk and Guts as a character. WAR is just unga bunga me mad.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player
    Thaciscokidd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    557
    Character
    Alfimi Einst
    World
    Golem
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100


    Darkness is gravity! It swallows everything around it... even light itself can't escape!... Its power is infinite!

    While ya'll can have the guts sword, I've always wanted the darkness powers to be like Marshall D. Teach's Darkness devil fruit power. A mixture of absorption and gravity magic and a pretty cool laugh! Zehahahahahaha!
    (2)

  8. #18
    Player Soge01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,406
    Character
    Waira Amarilla
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaciscokidd View Post


    Darkness is gravity! It swallows everything around it... even light itself can't escape!... Its power is infinite!

    While ya'll can have the guts sword, I've always wanted the darkness powers to be like Marshall D. Teach's Darkness devil fruit power. A mixture of absorption and gravity magic and a pretty cool laugh! Zehahahahahaha!
    Oooh, I want this, too now! Dark Knight's old ability, Tarpit could be reworked to work just like this! 8O

    Also, I see you are also a fellow One Piece Fan. x3

    Hmm, since Dark Knight swings around a big arse sword, why not combine Teach's devil fruit power with Mihawk's swordsmanship? :3

    (1)
    Last edited by Soge01; 01-15-2022 at 04:20 PM.

  9. #19
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,905
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Caurcas View Post
    The lore of DRK fits better as it's basically in a sense the the only job that deals with the WoL's trauma and trying to work through it. Kind of the central theme of Berserk and Guts as a character.
    Put any strength-based physical combatant into the world of Berserk, especially if as a merc, and they're going to have trauma-warrior vibes.

    WAR is just unga bunga me mad.
    By lore, XIV WAR is "turning into the beast, holding just enough sanity not to kill yourself or your friends as you go all in, doing what must be done." That's not just "unga bunga".

    Let's not mistake the kit's post-4.1 simplicity for its dominant motif, or ARR PLD would have been thematically devoid of intelligence and DRK's primary characteristic would be to work harder for less and to die randomly some 10 seconds after taking damage other armored fighters would survive.
    (2)

  10. #20
    Player Caurcas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    1,527
    Character
    Caur Kagon
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Put any strength-based physical combatant into the world of Berserk, especially if as a merc, and they're going to have trauma-warrior vibes.


    By lore, XIV WAR is "turning into the beast, holding just enough sanity not to kill yourself or your friends as you go all in, doing what must be done." That's not just "unga bunga".

    Let's not mistake the kit's post-4.1 simplicity for its dominant motif, or ARR PLD would have been thematically devoid of intelligence and DRK's primary characteristic would be to work harder for less and to die randomly some 10 seconds after taking damage other armored fighters would survive.
    But that is not the WoL's arc as a WAR. The WoL controls it with ease and is never a threat to anyone else with it. The WAR arc is Curious Gorge's arc. Contrasted with the DRK arc for the WoL which spends its first and third act on introspection into the cracks and how unresolved emotion is pouring through. A blade that is chipped and cracked. Which is very Berserk.
    Furthermore, DRK in the meta is the definition of struggle. Spat upon and crapped upon by the boarder fanbase, but continues on (also the strongest tank dps wise.) In short DRK is all about that StrugLfye.
    (1)

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