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  1. #1
    Player

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
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    Ul'dah
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    166

    No Public Beta Testing: good bad for the game?

    I am curious how this community feels about the lack of a public beta test realm. On one hand, I see the advantages: it’s FUN for us all to figure out the story and jobs on our own. I had so much fun figuring out how things changed and hopefully improved for my favorite classes. It even got me to try Bard, which is my favorite job this expansion.

    But, it also meant that so many jobs were released with clearly unfair advantages and disadvantages compared to other jobs, something that would come up on a PTR.

    Do you feel FFXIV content would improve for having a PTR?

    I think it would, but only if they let us test the new job/job changes on the previous expansion’s content. I don’t want story spoilers or to even see a new zone.
    (4)

  2. #2
    Player
    MintnHoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    903
    Character
    Aylin Bielawska
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Any testing is good testing, especially if it's more testing.
    (5)

  3. #3
    Player
    NegativeS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Azeroth
    Posts
    803
    Character
    Negative Space
    World
    Seraph
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 100
    They would have to have pretty extreme scrutiny in what advice they decided to take. I remember from my time in WoW, people would be extremely vocal about changes they personally wanted, but would be detrimental to the overall game... And then those changes would be added, and the game would suffer for it.

    However, as the person who posted before me stated,

    Quote Originally Posted by MintnHoney View Post
    Any testing is good testing, especially if it's more testing.
    (8)


    My outline for a Chemist healer: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/513527-Healer-Concept-Draft-Chemist

  4. #4
    Player
    Velnora's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    469
    Character
    Velnora Pharetsu
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeS View Post
    They would have to have pretty extreme scrutiny in what advice they decided to take. I remember from my time in WoW, people would be extremely vocal about changes they personally wanted, but would be detrimental to the overall game... And then those changes would be added, and the game would suffer for it.

    However, as the person who posted before me stated,
    Lolwut? Blizz didn't listen to feedback. That's a primary reason why people left.
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    VirusOnline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    616
    Character
    Yoshi Papa
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Awarewolf View Post

    But, it also meant that so many jobs were released with clearly unfair advantages and disadvantages compared to other jobs, something that would come up on a PTR.
    This is a pretty bold claim. I'm interested to see evidence such a claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by MintnHoney View Post
    Any testing is good testing, especially if it's more testing.
    The issue with this is that it assumes that all feedback is good feedback.


    IMO, there should be no PTR. The current system works well.
    It allows the team to have their singular vision and focus on that goal without being distracted by the playerbase's MANY opinions and MANY wants.
    Deploy the team's vision and only then consider feedback and if they so desire - incorporate.
    (3)

  6. #6
    Player
    MintnHoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    903
    Character
    Aylin Bielawska
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by VirusOnline View Post
    The issue with this is that it assumes that all feedback is good feedback.
    Indeed, I'm of the belief that all feedback is good feedback, even if you can't or won't always use the feedback provided.
    What I'm assuming, actually, is that there's someone, perhaps (but not necessarily) a QA Engineer, or a group of such people, who are capable enough to either parse through and utilize the feedback to further their goals or "mission" for the software in question, or who are capable of organizing and providing specific tests that must be undertaken by subjects in both a controlled and uncontrolled capacity.

    To be honest, I believe that it would be better (and, frankly, prudent) for a neutral 3rd party group of professionals to be consulted instead. In-house testing, especially in large companies, has a tendency to just be a circle-jerk experience, especially in companies that have issues with standards surrounding seniority.
    That doesn't mean there isn't a place for public testing, however; for example, public test realms would allow them to potentially determine certain issues like what we've had emergency maintenances for since the game released (and we've had a few), determine job balance and performance issues when they actually hit the playerbase (and isn't being tested in a controlled environment with company-approved or company-dictated behavior) prior to the official release, among other things, to help keep a smooth experience. Both the application and expectation of what can be tested should be kept in mind when proposing a public test, as you're asking for the average (and sometimes the below and above average) layman to provide a sample of data to work with.

    But that's just my opinion.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    MsQi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,161
    Character
    X'lota Qi
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by MintnHoney View Post
    Any testing is good testing, especially if it's more testing.
    No not really. Maybe for stress tests. There are specific skills involved in testing. A bunch of randos testing just make life harder for the testing lead.
    (3)
    "A good RPG needs a healthy dose of imbalance."
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuC365vjzBFmvbu6M7dB80A

  8. #8
    Player

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,682
    It's a good thing. There was far too much advance knowledge in WoW and in some circles expectations that you'd play on the PTR to practice for the actual release version.

    I much prefer SE's *solid* in-house QC and no-spoiler launches.
    (54)

  9. #9
    Player
    Deceptus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Goblet - 16th Ward, Plot 55
    Posts
    4,418
    Character
    Deceptus Keelon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Illmaeran View Post
    I much prefer SE's *solid* in-house QC and no-spoiler launches.
    Lol? Solid? So many people in this thread who say SE has "quality QC" are clearly white knighting.

    Yes this is copypasta that I've compiled over the years because it's been so blatant.

    2.0

    * Warrior was straight upbroken on release. We were told by the developers we were "Playing it wrong".

    3.0

    * Bard ability Wandering Minuet, which turned them into a caster, and made them immoblie which was completely against what their job used to be. Bards were the mobile job. That change lasted an expansion before they realized their mistake on went back on it.
    * Astrologian was a mess on release, and was entirely too weak. They then buffed them to an insane degree and made SCH redundant. After the buff AST could heal / shield for more than SCH, instantly, and for less MP. Then after that AST was nerfed because SCH's were essentially shelved.

    4.0

    * WHM's were completely messed up. Their main mechanic "Lilies" were completely ignored by players. The SB media tour already had healer mains saying “No, this is bad; please don’t do this”. And the response? “Just wait and try them out.” After SB released: “No, this is still bad; please change it”. “Wait until Savage”. Savage releases: “THIS IS STILL BAD PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF THE TWELVE CHANGE IT”. While they did ultimately make the Lilies more interesting (after two years of players outright ignoring the core job mechanic), it’s still not great.

    * SCHs were having to broil ( a single target attack) multi mob packs in dungeons due to the Miasma2, Bane, and Shadowflare (their AoE attacks) removal, had the least efficient shields and worst MP economy. They were thriving so much that they saw an across the board sweep of buffs and new abilities in patch 4.05 to try and fix the clearly untested and untuned mess that 4.0 had left them in. And no, they weren't small buffs and tweaks either. We're talking as high as +150 potency on a single target ability here.

    * Tanks were a mess, especially [DARK ARTS] Dark [DARK ARTS] Knights [DARK ARTS]. They had the worst mitigation of any tank. outside of TBN. It was being used as a crutch.

    5.0:

    * SCH was a complete mess. The Devs removed Energy Drain which was the SCH main aetherflow dump as well as MP regainer. This caused a justified massive backlash from the entire healer community.
    * Healers in general were extremely disappointed, so much so that players left the job in mass numbers and we still have a shortage.
    * RDM's had extreme mana issues just doing their basic rotation. They would literally run out of mana playing their job correctly. Something as simple as ability MP numbers were released in a screwed up fashion.

    Monks have almost always been in a bad spot gameplay wise.

    Remember when SE thought it was a great idea to implement a GREED ONLY rule in all of the 24 mans? Yeah that was announced pre-patch and it was thoroughly lambasted and SE rightly had to reverse course shortly after implementation. Even knowing it was the wrong thing to do, THEY STILL IMPLEMENTED IT.
    (6)
    Last edited by Deceptus; 01-13-2022 at 10:51 AM.
    Veteran healers don't care if we need to heal, but right now we don't. We want interesting things to do during the downtime other than a 30s dot and a single filler spell that hasn't changed from lvl 4 to lvl 90.
    Dead DPS do no DPS. Raised DPS do 25/50% lower DPS. Do the mechanics and don't stand in bad stuff.
    Other games expect basic competence, FFXIV is pleasantly surprised by it. Other games have toxic elitism. FFXIV has toxic casualism.[/LIST]

  10. #10
    Player
    Espon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    977
    Character
    N'kilah Razhi
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptus View Post
    Lol? Solid? So many people in this thread who say SE has "quality QC" are clearly white knighting.
    These are design issues, not bugs. The PTR is there to find bugs so that they don't make it into release, not for huge sweeping job changes. Those kinds of things are done in patches. Making such mass changes in the PTR would likely create more bugs and delay the release date. Eventually they'll have to release the patch and people will still complain because things aren't quite balanced.
    (7)

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