I thought people might be exaggerating about SMN

[aveyond-dreams]

Ok, so I'm here to make sure there's at least one voice on here going against the crowd that seems to need all hotbars filled in order to feel "fulfilled" and that can't seem to wrap their heads around the idea that "complex!" doesn't necessarily mean good. Unlike I was able to last expansion, they seem unable or unwilling to try out new things after some job changes occurred they didn't like, and by and large their complaints often include the desire to revert things back to mechanics that were widely disliked and would in fact cause a storm if they dropped them back in without warning.

Ruin stacking? Bringing back the punishing timers and death penalties? Taking away SMN's mobility? Please. We'll get new abilities and mechanics eventually but it's not going to be stuff that people already rejected unless they actively decide to ruin the goodwill they earned with the rework from the majority of players. If I was patient for 8 years to get actual Summoner added to this game then I think they can wait 2 years at most for the next caster to be added, and that's if the devs even decide to cater to them in the first place. They haven't exactly given off the most agreeable impression, which should have been their priority seeing as how it's them asking big and not myself.

After that last interview they did, I wonder if looking back they would have worded things better instead of how they actually decided to behave. By all means, add Time Mage, Necromancer, or Arithmetician to the game. Add in all the mechanics that didn't fit on old SMN to one of those jobs. Hopefully people like it. If not, that's fine, luckily there are lots of options.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

All I can say is... I love the new Summoner and it's become my favorite dps job currently.

[tearagion]

snip

didn't read, stop posting

I don't think it is being smug to tell you that your option is to play something different if you do not like it. That is just kinda the reality of the situation... If you are expecting some one to have a direct line to Yoshi P to call and address your complain than that is just unrealistic.

It does suck if you liked old summoner and do not like the new iteration. Those are the only people that I think can legitimately complain. If you find the class is to easy than play something you enjoy more it is not exactly rocket science.

The class was reworked because it was not very user friendly, it suffered from some jank at the start of shadowbringers which made me drop the class. The jank was eventually addresed. But the class really was a bunch of piled on systems that really didn't mesh that well.

I enjoy new summoner, its easy game play and very chill. I think it could use some work but it is what it is right now and I like the direction they are going with it.

I don't expect anything from SE, at this point all I would expect is for another job to be lobotomized in 7.0.

I'm glad you agree I can legitimately complain, not that I needed your validation. To continue that is exactly what I have been doing, levelling other jobs trying to find something I enjoy anywhere near as much as old SMN, so far the only contender is BLM and even then it doesn't meet that bar.

I have no qualms with SE reworking jobs that they think require the rework. That's their prerogative. My issues are, first, that this rework so absolutely and completely diverges from old SMN, the only appeals that have been maintained in my opinion are the visual effects, and, second, that it feels extremely incomplete and unrealized when compared to every other job including the other new jobs introduced in Endwalker. These problems combined make for, in my opinion, a completely unacceptable rework from the perspective of anyone other than the apathetic or the satisfied.

[wereotter]

didn't read, stop posting

I'm glad you agree I can legitimately complain, not that I needed your validation. To continue that is exactly what I have been doing, levelling other jobs trying to find something I enjoy anywhere near as much as old SMN, so far the only contender is BLM and even then it doesn't meet that bar.

Hypocrisy much? You can post and complain but you feel entitled to tell someone else to shut up?

[mathias-merodach]

Ok, so I'm here to make sure there's at least one voice on here going against the crowd that seems to need all hotbars filled in order to feel "fulfilled" and that can't seem to wrap their heads around the idea that "complex!" doesn't necessarily mean good. Unlike I was able to last expansion, they seem unable or unwilling to try out new things after some job changes occurred they didn't like, and by and large their complaints often include the desire to revert things back to mechanics that were widely disliked and would in fact cause a storm if they dropped them back in without warning.

Ruin stacking? Bringing back the punishing timers and death penalties? Taking away SMN's mobility? Please. We'll get new abilities and mechanics eventually but it's not going to be stuff that people already rejected unless they actively decide to ruin the goodwill they earned with the rework from the majority of players. If I was patient for 8 years to get actual Summoner added to this game then I think they can wait 2 years at most for the next caster to be added, and that's if the devs even decide to cater to them in the first place. They haven't exactly given off the most agreeable impression, which should have been their priority seeing as how it's them asking big and not myself.

After that last interview they did, I wonder if looking back they would have worded things better instead of how they actually decided to behave. By all means, add Time Mage, Necromancer, or Arithmetician to the game. Add in all the mechanics that didn't fit on old SMN to one of those jobs. Hopefully people like it. If not, that's fine, luckily there are lots of options.

Again, you strawman an entire group just to try and push forward your narrative that I'd say falls flat upon any amount of scrutiny (not to mention this thread alone has multiple people approving of new SMN so how're you going to be the ONLY one?). People are speaking of disliking the ability removal, changes, and simplification of one job. Trying to take that opinion then present it as their view of every job is one of the most disingenuous arguments as is the assumption that they don't play other jobs.
Same with your evidence about the player base's feelings. The -only- thing that's clear is there are people on both sides. Either view saying more than that without proof is in the wrong. I've run into both sides, in game, with my own being towards the dislike over approval. It's all anecdotal.

As for mobility? You had 4 abilities that had a hardcast: Ruin, Bio, Outburst, and a revive. DWT effectively removed Ruin and Outburst's cast and Bio only required hardcasting when Tridisaster was on CD and it was about to fall off. And only -some- people rejected them. Others approved and liked. These absolutes that you always speak in incorrect, even more so than you like to talk about, given how divisive the response has been.

[Madoka]

Hypocrisy much? You can post and complain but you feel entitled to tell someone else to shut up?

Here's the thing about Aveyond, they post in every single summoner thread dismissing any and all reasoning fans of the old SMN post and attempt to shit on them at the same time. If you don't open the dps section out, try it sometime. you'll see some 30 page SMN thread and 10 pages worth of posts are him replying to every single person saying they are wrong for liking old SMN or some hyperbole about how the class was never played before, or some other bs. They also do not have Arcanist even unlocked on the character they openly show on their profile despite almost exclusively posting in SMN threads. They are an extremely dedicated troll and a coward.

[aveyond-dreams]

Again, not sure how any of the above is doing anything to further the cause of convincing the devs to add "complex!" mage back in. All the devs see you doing is arguing in circles and being rude to me because I'm not interested in seeing SMN go backwards. How is this supposed to convince anyone of doing what you ask?

[Madoka]

My post is simply to warn others not to waste time arguing with a wall.

[Warlyx]

that would come as surprise but.... *gasp* different ppl like different things ...

SMN is flashy , and fun on its own ...it could be more "interesting" to play ? yes...ofc! , it will get better? im fairly sure

hell MCH in SHB was as easy as SMN is now (mch in 6.0 only added 1 new skill into rotation the chainsaw) it was fun and is fun now

BRD nowdays is easy as hell , too u are spamming 1 button 80% of time , refresh dots /change song every 45s and using procs when up ...

RDM is as easy as always ....hell now is even more easy since u can bank "melee" chain.

all tanks are easy to play outside savage and i dont see any1 saying anything.

RPR is easy , MNK? ...lol

the question should be are u having fun? if yes keep playing that job , else look into another.

[Madoka]

the question should be are u having fun? if yes keep playing that job , else look into another.

The flaw with this logic is that for most old SMN mains, SMN was the only interesting job and playstyle option they had. If every other job was fairly boring for you, what option do you have when the job you did enjoy is removed to cater to those who did not like it? If people wanted a simple job to play they had several options, there was no need to dumb down SMN so much while changing it aesthetically. They could have easily appeased those who wanted the visual flair while keeping the job identity.

If you like vanilla pudding and I take away all of your vanilla and replace it with chocolate, should you just be happy that you still have pudding even if you don't like it?