*Spoilers* Anyone feel joining Emet would have been better

[Veloran]

He was a delightful character, it was refreshing to meet a truly benevolent leader and be treated with genuine respect by him.

Almost every leader we meet in this game is nice and respectful. Usually the only ones that fall outside that purview end up being outright villains that we kill.

[Lersayil]

Besides the obvious time travel plot convenience, Hermes pointed out another reason for the memory erasure: the "test" would've been unfair if the Ancients knew what the cause was behind the Final Days. This in itself implies that he believed that the Ancients could formulate a reasonable plan, given they know what they're up against. Alas, he believed the solution had to be brute forced to be a "genuine" result. (God I hate Hermes...)

Lacking this vital piece of information the Sundered wouldn't have had a fighting chance either. And while the Scions did some theorizing on the subject, ultimately it was Hydaelyns hint that even brought the idea of dynamys up.

[Nayukhuut]

So Shadowbringers had antagonists I begrudgingly had to defeat, even though all I really wanted to do was sit down and work something out. I had to defeat them because, even though I empathized with them to my core, I couldn't let them destroy the innocent people who now live through no fault of their own. I remember thinking back then that I couldn't support what Hydaelyn had done. I remember already being upset about it, and wanting to cut ties with her as well.

Enter Endwalker. I had to begrudgingly help a protagonist (and I use this term loosely since I certainly do not consider her one), even though all I really wanted to do was to tell her how the Ascians were completely justified in their hatred for her. I had to help her because I rather like living on this planet of ours, and I didn't really want to see it destroyed. I really remember wishing we had more dialogue options to disagree with her. I picked the one they did give us, but after that it was all about support I really did not feel.

The Ascians get a lot of hate for what they did, and rightfully so, but what Venat did was just as bad. Heck, might even be considered worse since she knew that multiple worlds had been rejoined in our tale, so she knew about that loss of life too. Before that though she took it upon herself to decide the fate of an entire species because they were not acting how she wanted them to. She destroyed everything they were, and everything they could have been.

The original post asked if I would side with the Ascians knowing what I know, and I would have to say no. Their plan at the time of us meeting them was terrible, and I could not be a part of that. I would not side with Hydaelyn either, though.

I would go back in time and tell the Ancients everything. Let them look over my memories with the Echo. Tell them the cause of the Final Days. Tell em about Dynamis. Maybe given the time to prepare they could have come up with a plan better than Zodiark. Maybe they could have summoned an aethershield to protect them while they worked on it. Built constructs to manipulate Dynamis, or thinned their aether voluntarily to be able to use this new power. I would have gone back and fought with them for as long as my thinning aether would let me. Would have told them of Venat's plan, and let them choose their own destiny. Course this would just result in a splintered timeline that wouldn't change our own, but no matter.

Oh, and Hydaelyn... Kindly stop calling me your child. I might be one of your Sundered, but only because you forced it on the world. I happily denounce you.

Edit: Splintered timeline prolly best too since the Sundered are innocent and wouldn't deserved to be erased because of my actions. Thankfully we have a precedent for alternate timelines.

[Rulakir]

It's interesting, the more I read of the other side of the debate the more I realize how much is contradictory. First, it was the sundering was necessary because the Ancients were incapable of interacting with dynamis. Now, it's Venat pursued multiple paths and only chose sundering as a last resort.

My feeling has always been if you believe there was any chance that the Ancients could've found a way then what Venat did was unequivocally wrong.

[RyuDragnier]

It's interesting, the more I read of the other side of the debate the more I realize how much is contradictory. First, it was the sundering was necessary because the Ancients were incapable of interacting with dynamis. Now, it's Venat pursued multiple paths and only chose sundering as a last resort.

I find it interesting on the other side of the debate as well. A lot of the people for the Ancients seem to ignore information the game has pointed out, try to rewrite what was shown as being false, and even seem to make very weird and odd jumps in logic. TBH it's getting really annoying and hard to have good discussion around here when one side is trying to ignore the very information we're given.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I find it interesting on the other side of the debate as well. A lot of the people for the Ancients seem to ignore information the game has pointed out, try to rewrite what was shown as being false, and even seem to make very weird and odd jumps in logic. TBH it's getting really annoying and hard to have good discussion around here when one side is trying to ignore the very information we're given.

It’s especially annoying when one sides both ignores the information and pushes headcanon as truth. Then everything just gets muddled between what’s real and what’s fake.Not to mention the usage of irl terms people keep using that dont really equate to a fantasy scenario.

[Denishia]

Insert joke about how the Ancient society ruled by Amaurot states that they solve conflicts and run their society off of rational logical debate and discussion, but have the same emotions as all the sundered people of Etheirys (if, as Hermes showcased, a lack of emotional wisdom and support that does feel like a pointed critique towards the handling of mental health issues) and like anyone claiming to argue based on facts and logic being the first red flag that the debate will be about and run off of emotional biases.

[Theodric]

Oh, and Hydaelyn... Kindly stop calling me your child. I might be one of your Sundered, but only because you forced it on the world. I happily denounce you.

Yeah, that always came across as rather creepy to me! In many ways, Hydaelyn simply reminded me of an abusive parent - the thinking patterns are eerily similar and some abusive parents do genuinely believe that they are perfectly justified and doing the right thing at every turn.

She gets a few points from me for acknowledging that the Sundering was an act of cruelty and that there was no justice in it, though that doesn't really make up for her gaslighting and inaction elsewhere.

Each to their own, though. Some people like her, others do not. As it stands, some seem intent on trying to draw lines in the sand to create 'sides' even where it doesn't make sense - especially since there is a not insignificant number of posters here on record stating that they desired a 'third path forward' to somehow be forged.

[Lauront]

It's interesting, the more I read of the other side of the debate the more I realize how much is contradictory. First, it was the sundering was necessary because the Ancients were incapable of interacting with dynamis. Now, it's Venat pursued multiple paths and only chose sundering as a last resort.

My feeling has always been if you believe there was any chance that the Ancients could've found a way then what Venat did was unequivocally wrong.

We need to keep in mind the timeline constraint, IMO. I share your dissatisfaction towards her and her reasoning but ultimately it's the time travel that is the cause of it all. Equally though, it leaves a lot of "what ifs" as viable possibilities. Part of why I'm not overly fond of how it was all resolved.

[Rulakir]

It’s especially annoying when one sides both ignores the information and pushes headcanon as truth. Then everything just gets muddled between what’s real and what’s fake.Not to mention the usage of irl terms people keep using that dont really equate to a fantasy scenario.

This. There are posters who I've stopped responding to because the basis for their arguments is almost always something not supported in the game. They present it as fact when it's conjecture. I just don't have the time or interest to reply "Source?" constantly, so I just don't bother anymore. I'm also (mostly :P) done posting dialog from the game because it doesn't seem to make a difference.