What is worth going to war for?

[ddwarbird]

I was all for the Garlean Empire. The people of Ezora were pretty much dumb hicks while the Garlean Empire had all the technology. If this was the real world and magic wasn't a thing, the Garlean Empire would have steamrolled all of the world, there is such a technology gap.

[Garnetiferous]

I was all for the Garlean Empire. The people of Ezora were pretty much dumb hicks while the Garlean Empire had all the technology. If this was the real world and magic wasn't a thing, the Garlean Empire would have steamrolled all of the world, there is such a technology gap.

Couple of things to keep in mind. The only reason they have that technology is because they effectively cheated. Their emperor knew about the Allagans because he was there when that empire was around. And we can't just ignore magic here because a big part of the reason why Emet-Selch was even able to do what he did as Solus was because of the Garleans low status because of their lack of ability to manipulate aether.

Next, the empire is really really bad at governing their provinces. Like it's incredible even. Pretty much every province we visited under empire control had some sort of almost complete lunatic running it and the native people were starving to death and miserable. This is also by design. Emet-Selch literally set up that empire to be a hot mess so it would cause calamities.

[ddwarbird]

No, I don't support Nazi's as some people have claimed. I support a strong centralised government and although Garlean had its problems, everyone seems to forget that it was the treatment of the Garleans as they couldn't use magic to force them to become totalitarian in the first place. Its alright to decry Imperialism as "bad", blanketing over history with a singular judgement but everyone seems to forget that Garlean was FORCED into being like that. It does not excuse their crimes but the city states are equally guilty of crimes both in the past and present but that's excused because we have to fight for them.

The Garlean Empire offered a chance at uniting the world, rather then having 3 separate city states with three different agendas, lets not forget that Limsa Lominsa is essentially a ROGUE NATION because its formed out of pirates but that is excused too as they just said they were sorry and suddenly all was forgiven. Limsa has all the legitimacy of Somali pirates.

Lets not forget their treatment of the beast tribes that forced them to turn to summoning as a way to keep pace... but the story is perfectly fine with that. All three city states deserve to burn for their crimes, equally as much as the Garlean Empire did.

[Cleretic]

The Garlean Empire offered a chance at uniting the world, rather then having 3 separate city states with three different agendas, lets not forget that Limsa Lominsa is essentially a ROGUE NATION because its formed out of pirates but that is excused too as they just said they were sorry and suddenly all was forgiven.

'Uniting the world by oppressing the entirety of it' isn't exactly the best deal.

[Ryaz]

'Uniting the world by oppressing the entirety of it' isn't exactly the best deal.

For Fascists, that is the ideal. :\

[ddwarbird]

Ah... so we are on the "call the other person facist" argument... classy...

No, I am not defending Garlean's actions at all. But I think its important to understand why people make choices like that and the story very skilfully shows how persecution at the hands of others for differences can lead to a thirst for revenge. Its very relevant to our modern world today.

I mean, all the states of this game are guilty of some kind of barbarism. I think that is why its so poignant. All of them are guilty.

[Ryaz]

Ah... so we are on the "call the other person facist" argument... classy...

No, I am not defending Garlean's actions at all. But I think its important to understand why people make choices like that and the story very skilfully shows how persecution at the hands of others for differences can lead to a thirst for revenge. Its very relevant to our modern world today.

I mean, all the states of this game are guilty of some kind of barbarism. I think that is why its so poignant. All of them are guilty.

Well, dude. The Garleans ARE a fascist regime and you said you support them, so what do you expect? "Strong central governments" tend to be the backbone of fascism and suppress their people through fear and violence, and get rid of anyone who is "different". It's always been like that.

Yeah, the City-States weren't much better with their treatment of the beast tribes and they've been called out on it. That's why they actually changed in the end.

[ddwarbird]

As a opposed to what, rampant piracy, a pacifist tree hugging society and a desert city that is basically owned by big business.

[Cleretic]

As a opposed to what, rampant piracy, a pacifist tree hugging society and a desert city that is basically owned by big business.

Do better than just reiterating the points Varis makes when going for hollow, hypocritical point-scoring. Even Varis isn't good at that, and that's clear from what he swings at Gridania. He doesn't go for any of the actual problems with Gridania, he just goes for the thing that'll make Kan-e-Senna mad and then claims that's victory.

And remember that Varis is also a master race ideologist. He's just got a weird angle that someone else is the master race rather than his people.