Class uniqueness [dev1032]

[ESAR]

Lets see how can we make the classes unique, without changing too much from the game. But ideas that do require drastic change are welcomed as well.


Related to creating class uniqueness.
*Change in basic attack speeds and stamina uses would be a start. They should vary bases on weapon, every weapon should have a unique feel.

*Improve staminas effect in battle. (Other disciplines and classes could take a higher hit on stamina.

*Insert other idea to create class uniqueness.


Unrelated
*Battle queue extension should help us control the feel of battle (kinda unrelated)

*Better targeting system (something like an auto-target), consider positioning and multiple enemies in it. (unrelated)

*Insert any idea to help battle.

[ESAR]

Edited to make it a discussion. Replied to let anyone that read know the change. Thanks.

[Wevlum]

I feel a drastic class re-haul is needed. Few of the classes have a particular focus or concept.

In FFXI a thief was a thief, you stole things and used skills with an emphasis on the concept of 'trickery'. In FFXIV the main difference between melee jobs is the weapon you use, which quickly becomes a trivial issue. Besides that, originally on the official websites (prior to release) there was an emphasis on range, each job had a range it was meant to stand at; pugilists the closest, archers the furthest. While this isn't exactly the foundation for a class system with highly unique classes it at least separated them somewhat. However, due to lack of crowd control, your class's ideal 'range' doesn't amount to an awful lot.

Often there's the argument that you 'make your own class' by using the skill system, with paladin (glad+conj) being the cited example. This doesn't exactly stand up either, you can make a paladin but 'subjob' abilities have longer recasts and only conj/thau can restore their mp (though I think they announced introduction of natural mp regen recently?). However, what class can I make with Archer? I don't, I just tack on healing abilities so that I can solo. I'm a paladin with a bow I suppose?

To summarise on classes, I think the classes just need their 'concept' rethinking. "Wields a spear" doesn't strike me as a concept, which is probably why the current idea of a 'unique' skill for a DD class is the same ability 10 times with either a different aoe shape (archer) or a different status effect tacked on (all melee classes).

As for general combat mechanics, FFXIV sits in a weird place. It's like it can't make its mind up if it wants to be a button masher or an final fantasy rpg game. We mash 1 until we can hit maybe a 2 or 3, possibly hitting 9 or 0 before the 2 or 3 if we're feeling fancy. If it wants to be a button masher then we need controls to reflect that, make dodging easier, get rid of the nervous twitching that is active and passive mode. If they want to be more tactical we need to look at less commands per second but each command having more emphasis/importance. Possibly look at a variation on the ATB system. At the moment we have a button basher with tactical rpg style controls and it's not a good combination.

[Ceons]

Often there's the argument that you 'make your own class' by using the skill system, with paladin (glad+conj) being the cited example. This doesn't exactly stand up either, you can make a paladin but 'subjob' abilities have longer recasts and only conj/thau can restore their mp (though I think they announced introduction of natural mp regen recently?).

Yes, your MP recovers now while you are in passive mode.

As for general combat mechanics, FFXIV sits in a weird place. It's like it can't make its mind up if it wants to be a button masher or an final fantasy rpg game. We mash 1 until we can hit maybe a 2 or 3, possibly hitting 9 or 0 before the 2 or 3 if we're feeling fancy. If it wants to be a button masher then we need controls to reflect that, make dodging easier, get rid of the nervous twitching that is active and passive mode. If they want to be more tactical we need to look at less commands per second but each command having more emphasis/importance. Possibly look at a variation on the ATB system. At the moment we have a button basher with tactical rpg style controls and it's not a good combination.

I totally agree with this.

I think this game needs more flashier animations. I love the freedom of the game, but all the attacks look the same. Not only should my character look like it is doing a different 'emote' with each attach but also the 'animation' should be more colorful and special enough to recognize as a so-and-so skill.

Take a look at TERA online. Lovely character movement with every skill, looks so smooth and natural instead of the same THM move with a blue or a red ball.

I think that would make the combat so much more interesting.

[Dyvid]

Legendary Jobs should be based on the armor you wear, not the weapon you equip. Paladin Armor would enhance abilities like phalanx, guard, rampart, and cover as well as granting new abilities like reprisal and flash.

Also the abilities need to be flashy and unique instead of all looking the same. Weaponskills should only be useable to that classes. A GLA shouldn't use skewer.

[Ceons]

I like the the way you can make your own class now. I think that is a step forward and going back to rigid pre-defined "you can't do anything without a group"/"You have such a pre-defined role/job/class that you are worthless by yourself. You can't do anything alone" is totally going backwards.

[Dyvid]

Don't forget that is based on how difficult the monster/quest are, not the class you make.

[Wevlum]

I like the the way you can make your own class now. I think that is a step forward and going back to rigid pre-defined "you can't do anything without a group"/"You have such a pre-defined role/job/class that you are worthless by yourself. You can't do anything alone" is totally going backwards.

Again, aside from paladin (which is by definition a tank with cure spells attached to it), I don't see it as 'making your own job' so much as 'adding curing abilities/buffs to your existing job'; i.e. attaching raging strike and hawk eye to melee classes or just adding cure/bloodbath to any job that doesn't have healing. That's not really "making your own class" in my opinion, it's just tacking random extras onto your job to help it solo. If this is what we're doing maybe it should just be entirely classless and stop pretending the concept of classes exist in this game, i.e. there's a list of skills, pick what you want.

[ESAR]

Legendary Jobs should be based on the armor you wear, not the weapon you equip. Paladin Armor would enhance abilities like phalanx, guard, rampart, and cover as well as granting new abilities like reprisal and flash.

I absolutely love this idea, you can do so much with it.

Again, aside from paladin (which is by definition a tank with cure spells attached to it), I don't see it as 'making your own job' so much as 'adding curing abilities/buffs to your existing job'; i.e. attaching raging strike and hawk eye to melee classes or just adding cure/bloodbath to any job that doesn't have healing. That's not really "making your own class" in my opinion, it's just tacking random extras onto your job to help it solo. If this is what we're doing maybe it should just be entirely classless and stop pretending the concept of classes exist in this game, i.e. there's a list of skills, pick what you want.

Lets see, Every type of traditional class can have their own sets of abilities.

Paladin Defensive, with healing buff.
Dark knight, attack magic buff.
Thief- whatever you want from thief.
Black mage, destructive magic buff.
White mage, Defensive magic buff.
Warrior attack buff.

Just keep filling in classes we can make Armour for them and buff those qualities in them.

People will wear cool sets of Armour that benefit the qualities of that job within the class. You just pick armour based on what you want to do.

[Ceons]

I just hope Yoshi-P has a vision with this game. Otherwise only taking the ideas of players and putting them together will cause for a failed vision and game x.x