Revelations (and Feedback) from Pandæmonium: Asphodelos

[QT_Melon]

Some thoughts on how the pieces may fall.

Would Kairos even be necessary if Elidibus and Lahabrea are Themis and Erichtonius respectively? Elidibus has lost most of his memories by the point we meet him, Lahabrea has… not been doing well based on the short stories from Shadowbringers, perhaps neither recognized us due to those factors? Would also explain why Elidibus was soon attached to the idea of the Warrior of Light. Perhaps an echo (heh) of us/Azem that he still retained?

Not too mention Kairos requires the approval of the Head of Elpis to use, which would introduce a bit of paradox given Hermes clearly did not recognize us and I assume he was the head at the time as well.

Yeah I did think of that but

The reason I find Kairos to be involved - is due to a couple of oddities. 1 of which is writing related the other is involving the character.

I find it EXTREMELY odd to introduce something of that nature (Kairos) for it not to show up again. IN FACT. It was interesting that in the MSQ, for the accident, Emet did not exactly objecte to being at Kitisis. So I feel this was part of the tour and it wasn't just to talk to Hermes, they were very likely to have gone to seen said device and likely knew about it. If Elidibus at that time was head - makes sense that he would have likely mentioned it and tasked Emet to go see Hermes.

https://youtu.be/FnaqXPQ3WCU?t=1283

In reference to the paradox if Hermes would have recognized the WoL: Themis doesn't need to have the WoL present. Simply, ask for a range (specific time) to be erased. It hasn't been addressed as to why Elidbus would 1. Had an erasure of memories to begin with when Venat apparently does not. 2. Be stubborn about looking at his own memory crystal despite the insistence from Emet. So I wouldn't be surprised of the story has something to address that disparity for the hosts/cores of Zodiark and Hydaelyn.

[QT_Melon]

I am just baffled at how much Themis and Venat look like each other. Weird.

Hahah yeah I made mention of that as well. It would also play even more into context about how in Anamesis Anyder Venat was not going to speak ill of anyone there.

Wonder if the white Robes weren't so much "retirement robes" like people thought when they saw Venat in MSQ but a sort of Scions of the Seventh Dawn group. Themis would sort of be a more tragic Alphinaud?

[JeanneOrnitier]

I am just baffled at how much Themis and Venat look like each other. Weird.

What if it turns out they're related, like mother/son or older sister/younger brother? That'd add a whole new tragic spin on both of them becoming Hydaelyn and Zodiark.

[Rosenstrauch]

Well, I hit 565 this morning, so I guess it's time to go through Hell.

Spoilers, natch:

Themis is obviously Elidibus. It's so painfully obvious that I actually wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't, and his "this guy is totally Elidibus" vibes are a red herring. But until such time as that comes to pass, it's my working belief that he is who he appears to be. Something about him mastering interment magic so quickly that he can near-effortlessly break such spells before they take root strikes me as odd, however. It could just be a demonstration of his affinity for magic in general, or it could be more. Can't really say for sure.

Also, I can't help but think this Hesperos fella is Tempered. He seems outright obsessed with Lahabrea to the exclusion of all else, and while his claims of not actually being the person Erichthonios thought he was might hold merit, I'm not sure I buy it.

Oh, one more thing: Phoinix has three heads. The snake boss in the level 87 Dungeon has three heads. The snake statues have three heads. What is the meaning of this? It's probably nothing, and I'm just being silly.

[Kuroka]

Prettymuch. I'm guessing the crystal might not actually be a soul stone, as such, but might be imbued with a message for us and/or a spell to bring us back to Elpis?

It sure will end with Totally not Elidibus erasing his memory of us - the memory he mentioned before sending us back in the first place - putting it into the stone, making sure we will find it one day. All that "you can tell me later once we know each other better..." stuff screams that even more to me.


His robe is weird though, it was explicitly said its for the role of Elidibus and retired members only...

Final boss might be a fautly revived mother - or plot twist this isnt a relevant Lahabreha and we finish him.

[Elecrom]

My 2 cents.....

White Robes are explicitely mentioned to be NOT only for retired convocation members, they are also for certain other civil servants. In fact the seat of Elidibus is so special because it is the only seat which uses white robes when active.

I don't recall Hesperos mentioning he was doing this on Lahabrea's orders. He just said he would be 'more useful' to "him" as a hemitheos, but we actually do not know who this "Him" is.

The only smooth way I see for Themis to be Elidibus is for him to be incognito.
It makes absolutely no sense for Pandaemonium to happen BEFORE the MSQ when we pretty much have to traverse the zone and all the NPCs there have text from AFTER the MSQ. It would be really disjointed and I don't see SE doing that.
You could argue that they set it up with forcing us to go through the Ocular but imo that was just for the introduction cutscene so that Themis could tell us Azem foretold that he would meet 'a falling star' who would help him.
Now that I think of it the Themis/Elidibus post credit scene which teased pandaemonium made it really seem that it happened after the defeat of the Endsinger which would mean that Themis is a projection of the Elidibus caught in the Crystal Tower.
At this point it's more likely to me that the 'current' Lahabrea and Ascian Lahabrea are the same person.

[manamoppet]

I take affront to the "WoL looks like Azem" thing because... Ancient are Hyur... we literally haven't seen an Ancient with any of the other races traits.

Yeah. In one of the side-quests in Elpis my scales and tail (at least for Auri) is asked/commented about as a marker as a familiar in the context of Meteion having feathers and a tail. So I assume the Ancients are all Hyur-like. If not, the NPC commenting wasn't well-traveled or informed.

[Saviin]

Yeah. In one of the side-quests in Elpis my scales and tail (at least for Auri) is asked/commented about as a marker as a familiar in the context of Meteion having feathers and a tail. So I assume the Ancients are all Hyur-like. If not, the NPC commenting wasn't well-traveled or informed.

Remember for the most part, the Ancients tend to identify each other not by physical appearance, but their aetherial presence/signature. I always interpreted that dialogue as them mentioning that aetherially we are near-identical to their Azem, rather than physical (cause as we can see, they seem to have alternate forms, and may even be able to alter their physical appearance?).

[QT_Melon]

My 2 cents.....

White Robes are explicitely mentioned to be NOT only for retired convocation members, they are also for certain other civil servants. In fact the seat of Elidibus is so special because it is the only seat which uses white robes when active.

I don't recall Hesperos mentioning he was doing this on Lahabrea's orders. He just said he would be 'more useful' to "him" as a hemitheos, but we actually do not know who this "Him" is.

The only smooth way I see for Themis to be Elidibus is for him to be incognito.
It makes absolutely no sense for Pandaemonium to happen BEFORE the MSQ when we pretty much have to traverse the zone and all the NPCs there have text from AFTER the MSQ. It would be really disjointed and I don't see SE doing that.
You could argue that they set it up with forcing us to go through the Ocular but imo that was just for the introduction cutscene so that Themis could tell us Azem foretold that he would meet 'a falling star' who would help him.
Now that I think of it the Themis/Elidibus post credit scene which teased pandaemonium made it really seem that it happened after the defeat of the Endsinger which would mean that Themis is a projection of the Elidibus caught in the Crystal Tower.
At this point it's more likely to me that the 'current' Lahabrea and Ascian Lahabrea are the same person.

Okay so everyone keeps saying its moving forward

again, how does that work? Because if time is so Linear then that zone is soon to be sundered and we shouldn't be able to traverse there

So I still have to ask HOW DOES TIME work in Elpis?

I am starting to feel its like the movie Arrival

[Elecrom]

Okay so everyone keeps saying its moving forward

again, how does that work? Because if time is so Linear then that zone is soon to be sundered and we shouldn't be able to traverse there

So I still have to ask HOW DOES TIME work in Elpis?

I am starting to feel its like the movie Arrival

The fact that we can enter and leave as we please makes it very likely that we established a static link, that flows in time. That means as time in the Source moves forward it moves forward in Elpis.
Again, this is supported by the same NPCs being present in Elpis no matter when you decide to go there and the fact that you cannot reincounter any of the MSQ-NPCs that you met there.
If the time would reset you would be able to for example see Meteion and Hermes tending to the axolotls or Emet and Hythlodeaus as they arrive to tour the facility.
Which would mean you could always try again and again to stop Hermes from deleting the other's memories.
But you can't, because time moves forward and does not reset.