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  1. #1
    Player
    Elysidelphi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    The World Unsundered
    Posts
    138
    Character
    Azeyma Persephoneisis
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90

    Dear SquareEnix/Natsuko Ishikawa - About Zenos in Endwalker *MAJOR MSQ SPOILERS*!

    *** MAJOR MSQ SPOILERS ***

    Dear SquareEnix/Natsuko Ishikawa,

    I am a long-time Final Fantasy player, I love and adore your games, most especially FFXIV. I've been playing FFXIV since Open Beta in 2013 and I love this game so much, and I trust you, the dev team, so much, that I never once paused my subscription, even when I was taking a break from the game for travelling or other purposes.

    I've recently finished Endwalker and while I am left with many unanswered/half-answered questions, one of the biggest questions/worries I have is related to Zenos. It's hard to find the words to describe everything I feel in regards to Zenos's story but I'll do my best. I'm writing this because I really really wish that you would bring back Zenos and give him a proper, in-depth redemption arc. His whole story breaks my heart on a completely different level than other heartbreaking stories of characters in this game. Zenos is someone with a tragic childhood, who was used by his own father, who ended up becoming a monster, someone who seems to have all the signs of classic depression (plus maybe other disorders), someone who didn't even have a single friend in his whole life. He never knew happiness, love, friendship, warmth. He obviously enjoyed killing others, and then pursuing the WoL for bigger and better fights, but I am quite sure that didn't give him long-time happiness, just fleeting moments of joy, gone too soon, as he himself says. He was always seeking to fill that void, and that void cannot ever be filled with just fleeting moments of joy, it needs something a lot more substantial, such as an on-going friendship, and even then, the struggle to fill that void would still remain.
    I ask you to bring him back because I am someone who thinks that even monsters could be saved, and could be deserving of happiness. No matter how I look at his story, it just makes me cry every time because I want so much more for him. And maybe, just maybe, he would want something more for himself as well. I'm not saying that a redemption story should just be handed out to him easily, he should work for it, but I am saying that he deserves a proper second chance where he could actually become friends with the WoL. Zenos is someone in his mid or late 20s and it just breaks my heart that he calls us, the WoL, his first friend. Can you imagine living 26+ years of your life without a single friend? Without a single soul you could ever genuinely call your friend? Can you imagine that kind of loneliness, emptiness, that kind of emotional coldness? It just breaks my heart on so many levels that words fail me and I write this with shaking hands. I am a psychologist in training, with a goal of specialising in forensic psychology. I know that even criminals and murderers can be reformed, if given time, energy, effort, a lot of hard work. I know that monsters are not born, they are made, as cliche as that may sound. I know that the first 5 years of a child's life will define the entire life and personality of that human either in positive or negative ways and I know that it takes a lot of time and hard work to undo childhood trauma, neglect, abandonment, violence, etc. In any games I play, especially in FFXIV (and in FFXI too) I main healers, it's just part of my real personality, the desire to heal and help, give a second chance, maybe even a third chance. Zenos is someone I would want to help and heal and give another chance, at genuine happiness, something more tangible and more stable than just fleeting moments of joy. I'd want Zenos to have at least one good friend who is always there for him, who has his back, who would protect and help him, and even just spend quiet moments with him, just talking, relaxing, joking, teasing each other. I'd want Zenos to finally know that warm feeling of being wanted and needed as a human being, not to be used for personal agendas, but to be enjoyed for whom he is, and I fully believe that beyond his dark, monstruous side, Zenos also has qualities such a intelligence, cunning, sarcasm, bravery, strength. I think he deserves more and better.
    I know that the final scene with Zenos was the WoL having a duel with him, and at the end of it, Zenos is shown left all alone, just after he seemed to have stopped breathing. I had no joy in doing that to him. No joy whatsoever. I was crying during the whole scene. I never ever wanted to hurt him. I wanted to give him a hug. Does it sound stupid/naive? Maybe so, but even monsters deserve a chance, of that I am convinced. Now, I know that Zenos has the Resonant and the Echo, he can body hop, he can see soul colours, he has dreams of the Final Days. So maybe he did survive that fight and his soul will go back to our world and find another body or even make a body similar/identical to his old one. Maybe he already had clones made of his original body and kept somewhere safe (say, underground) just to be safe. Or maybe he will get an entirely new body. But I want to see him back, and instead of just wanting to fight us again and again, I really really want him to be given a proper redemption story. It could be part of the main story in the future or it could be part of a side quest. He could even become a Trust member, that way he could go on adventures with us, fight by our side, and face mighty threats of all kinds; that lifestyle would suit him very well, plus he'd have us by his side, we could even have occasional mock duels with him just for fun/to learn from each other.
    It's just...I can't let go of him. Yeah, personal bias, subjective, etc. But I cannot let go of him. I thought it would be harder for me to let go of someone like Emet-Selch, Elidibus or Hermes as I also love them a lot. But with these aforementioned characters, I can console myself knowing that they did have friends. They did know warmth, and proper happiness. Yes, they also suffered a lot, yes they were also the villains of their own stories, but ultimately, they did also have friends and warmth and companionship and affection at some point in their stories. Of course I would like to see them again, always, that will never change. I love them dearly. Their stories still make me cry to this day no matter how many times I go through them. But I find no comfort whatsoever in Zenos's story. None. No silver lining. No nothing. That's why I cannot let go and move on. I want something more for Zenos. I know he deserves better. Also, giving him a redemption story could also bring hope to people in real life, people who also never had friends, or who were ostracised or considered "bad" for one reason or another, and it would teach the rest of us who were luckier, that we could choose to forgive and befriend someone, even someone who seems to be "pure evil" because deep down, no one is pure evil nor pure good.
    You might ask yourself "Well, why don't you mention Asahi then too? Or some other character?", and yes, I would mention any other "evil" character if that character was given the screen time that Zenos was given and if that character pursued us so single-mindedly. My desire to help, heal and save even the monsters doesn't stop at Zenos. But it is focused primarily on Zenos due to the time we have with him.
    Also, the subconscious part of the mind is extremely powerful and has a large amount of influence over our daily lives, whether we realise it or not. I think that Zenos is no exception. Yes, he seeks the WoL out always for a fight, but that's the conscious reason that Zenos himself knows about. However, he definitely has at least one subconscious reason for which he seeks out so much, almost desperately, and that reason has nothing to do with just fighting. It's obviously not made crystal clear in the story to be this way, but scientifically and psychologically speaking, this theory would be applicable to any human being, even to a psychopath.
    Also, something else that is important: history is written by the winners; the victors decide who the heroes and who the villains are. And obviously the side you/the WoL is on is going to say things that are favourable to their agenda/goals/ideals, even if they have to exaggerate. That is to say that while Zenos did indeed kill many and has no excuse, the stories about the numbers of people he killed, the stories about his cruelty and so on, may all or at least some of them be exaggerated. This must be kept in mind.
    I am also well aware that quite a number of people either dislike or hate Zenos and quite a few are indifferent towards him. But I also know that I am not the only one who cares so much about him. I don't want to turn this topic into an argument about why we should like/hate Zenos. After all, it's all subjective and a matter of personal preference.

    But I do see many people stating how they dislike/hate Zenos or just don't care about him at all, and not many who say they like/love him. I just don't want our voices to be drowned out.

    So, please, please, SquareEnix, please Natsuko Ishikawa, please bring Zenos back and give him an in-depth redemption story where he can find genuine happiness, warmth, friendship and companionship at journey's end. Please show us all that even monsters are capable of overcoming their own darkness and baser instincts if given the chance. Please show us that we are strong enough, wise enough, kind enough, generous enough to truly forgive a monster and take their hand in ours in genuine affection and friendship. Please show us that after everything we've been through, after we've managed to even forgive and befriend Meteion, destroyer of worlds/stars/civilisations, we can surely forgive and befriend someone who has considered us his first and only friend for so many years.
    (29)
    "For whom weeps the storm
    Her tears on our skin
    The days of our years gone
    Our souls soaked in sin
    These memories ache with the weight of tomorrow"

  2. #2
    Player
    Hiragawa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    87
    Character
    Quin'ra Polaani
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    To contrast everything you said: Please leave him dead. It's time to move on from Zenos.
    (140)

  3. #3
    Player
    xxmiamorecadenza's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    647
    Character
    Miawkwa Fletcher
    World
    Golem
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiragawa View Post
    To contrast everything you said: Please leave him dead. It's time to move on from Zenos.
    Agreed.

    Zenos went out in a way that left us with at least a good impression and his character went out in a way where he seemed genuinely content.

    He passed in a beautiful place with his friend and with a lovely and final parting shot - let the character rest.
    (36)

  4. #4
    Player
    Hiragawa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    87
    Character
    Quin'ra Polaani
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza View Post
    Zenos went out in a way that left us with at least a good impression and his character went out in a way where he seemed genuinely content. He passed in a beautiful place with his friend and with a lovely and final parting shot - let the character rest.
    Exactly. I quite detest him, but from a storyline perspective he showed up exactly when we needed him to do so. His overbearing persistence gave us an arena to quite literally save all of existence, and then went out exactly how he wanted. To bring him back yet again would be a massive disservice to his storyline.
    (16)

  5. #5
    Player
    StriderShinryu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Coeurl
    Posts
    1,298
    Character
    Alexalea Snowsong
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiragawa View Post
    To contrast everything you said: Please leave him dead. It's time to move on from Zenos.
    Not much more to say other than this ^^^

    Just a bad character that completely lost any sense or purpose after he offed himself in the Garden. Sadly, I do have a feeling they will still try to bring him back somehow but I really hope they don't. Just leave him dead (again).
    (2)

  6. #6
    Player

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiragawa View Post
    To contrast everything you said: Please leave him dead. It's time to move on from Zenos.
    Agreed! He needs to stay dead and out of the story. He wore out his welcome in Stormblood, to say nothing of Shadowbringers. He may look cool and act all edgy-chic, but he's the most poorly written villain the game's ever had. Please, for the love of all that's right in the world, do not bring him back for any reason at all!
    (4)

  7. #7
    Player
    Tsukino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,142
    Character
    Tsukino Mahou
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    Leave it to someone who likes a piece of cardboard like Zenos to have trouble with making paragraphs.
    (65)

  8. #8
    Player
    Sylve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,679
    Character
    Lyote Sharaia
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukino View Post
    Leave it to someone who likes a piece of cardboard like Zenos to have trouble with making paragraphs.
    I liked him too tbh. I understood why he was the way that he was.
    My read on him was that he is a sort of mirror to us as the WOL.
    We are ecceptionally powerful and skilled in all things.
    Zenos was the same minus him being Garlean preventing his use of magic, which finds a workaround to.

    Now, where we as the WOL are an adventurer travelling places and generally being a helpful sort. We are quite happy to put our power to use in service of others.

    Zenos on the other hand, was raised on the opposite belief that everyone else existed to serve his power.
    His apathy towards life in general stemmed from being overwhelmingly good at whatever he chose to do.
    When there is nothing and no one left to challenge you, it's easy to fall back on apathy.

    Fast forward to Stormblood. Yes he beats us on the first fight, but we pushed him harder than anyone else ever did, thus sparking an interest that maybe.. just maybe we could bring a spark of joy to an otherwise boring existence.
    And we rise to that challenge. Not because we wanted more power but because we were determined to free the region from his grip.

    The way it's all written with him always going on about the hunt after he came back to life seemed like he was wanting to hunt us.
    But it's actually the opposite. We defeated him already, we CANT be his prey.
    Which leads to all his efforts to make us hate him enough to hunt him down and give him the fight he so desperately craved.
    His "Hunt" was to be the hunted, not the hunter. We know he knew exactly where we were at any given moment. He could have challenged us whenever he wanted to by attacking the Scion etc.
    But it wasn't a simple exchange of blows he was after.
    Basically, he wanted to feel like the hunted, to feel that there was a wall before him that he had to put his all into overcoming.

    This is what led to that final encounter and the lines he gives during it.
    That he's dead and gone now, after finally getting the fight of his life is a fitting end to what is essentially a character with a twisted personality born of his upbringing.
    It was a good way to end his legacy. And I enjoyed the fight and cutscene immensely.
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player
    slaymaker1907's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    1
    Character
    Tom Bombabil
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukino View Post
    Leave it to someone who likes a piece of cardboard like Zenos to have trouble with making paragraphs.
    They did put breaks in their text, just triple left click and it will select the paragraphs. It is unfortunate though that they didn't do it in a way that renders nicely.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    van_arn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,960
    Character
    Van Arn
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    This was the Zenos redemption arc. He doesn’t need to be a good guy or to have the deepest motives. He just wants to fight us when it’ll be a fun fight.

    There’s no way he’s not coming back, and I’m fine with that. It’ll be just as much fun next time, too.
    (25)

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