The Atrocious Changes to Bard in Endwalker and the future

[ExcMiddle]

Even single target it would make no sense why your mages ballad is weaker then Peon. I weave bloodletter burst shot the same as before where in peon you can only fire off basically whats off cooldown thats not skills you want in your reopener/ opener. There is no way Peon that is only giving you the haste as a song is making you do more then in Mages unless numbers are not tuned right currently.

Let me do some potentially bad AP math (because idk how the game counts the cooldown reduction as) and proper MB math:

Counting procs from after 34 (until 43 since you don't get a proc at 45), you have a max of 4 procs you can get (1 from EA). This makes an average of 3*0.8 + 1 = 3.4 procs. So 3.4/2= 1.7 bloodletters * 110 = 187 potency on average.
AP gives 16% gcd reduction and autoattack cooldown reduction at 4 stacks (which you should have by 34 seconds in it). This puts you your gcd ahead by 0.685 seconds and your autoattack by 0.57 seconds. I am assuming here gcd of 2.5 and autoattack delay of 3 seconds respectively (gets better with lower numbers but we don't put too much sks on brd regardless). Assuming avg gcd potency of 241 and autoattack potency of 80 (I know that's the number people were using for shb due to the trait not buffing autoattack dmg), you average at 210.9 potency.
Idk how bad my AP calculations are but I have heard similar quotes and that even with the buff difference between the two, MB is expected to be 1-2 potency worse per second as a worst case (that full stacked AP). I don't have the numbers they do to make such a calculation so I cannot comfirm that.

But MB was not that much higher in dmg than AP before. These changes just tipped it under it.

Overall minor grievance since they will probably fix that in 6.01.

Personally I wanted the charges to at least mean that MB would have been busier than before. And of course there were the minor questions on whether MB will be the better opener on media tour bard, which was easilly rebuttled by the fact that you don't have the weave spots to be efficient with it.
As I had said in my first post, ShB bard is a job about planning your weave real estate. Currently, there is nothing to worry about during MB (I was personally feeling that it could easily become a boring song and I didn't want 3 stacks of BL even with procs on dots and full procs). Opener looks nice but WM looks way more relaxed afterwards. Apex& Blast looked interesting to optimise in media tour since you would be adjusting their use timings and planning based on kill times etc using the media tour build info, now they are a different 1-2 combo you use on reopener. RF looked like something you would optimise for, now you are kind of forced to have all the codas so it kind of has a long description for no particular reason. To me it looks like they took what bard has to offer as a job and they stripped off all the adjustments you would be making in a heat of rush.

[Akonyl]

BRD as it is now feels very halfway. I get that they don't want to change too many things at once, but as it is now, as mentioned in the OP, some things feel kinda soulless WRT DoTs becoming entirely vestigial and all the old DoT procs being transitioned away. If they're so determined to murder DoTs, I would've preferred they got it over with and given us the changes now that we'll inevitably get by the time 7.0 rolls around anyway, where our DoTs get yanked entirely.

Also, just a minor thing, but for being the new bread&butter AoE spam ability, man I do not like the sound of ladonsbite. Quick nock was nice and relatively quiet, but when I'm burning down a dungeon pack now all I hear is the ladonsbite sound over and over again. It's as noticeable as Catgirl 5.

[Kazamaiya]

I like quite a majority of the changes in Endwalker, but i still don't like the DoT's becoming frankly worthless. Summoner lost it's DoT's for a reason, they didn't really add anything to the job mechanically and it got reworked fully. Bard's entire kit revolved around it's DoT's proccing it's songs. So removing that for a flat % chance instead of two seperate % chances makes it more consistent, but i think it makes it less fun and kind of devalues some of the other changes like BL/ROD charges which people wanted because Mage's Ballad had a chance to proc twice- if not thrice (if used with EA) which would cause us to lose procs and BL/ROD uses.

Now you can't even proc twice and with MB being nerfed, your procs just feel less rewarding during that phase. Especially in AOE
I just want a reason for our DoT's (which was our main thing) to exist.

[Kreugen]

I agree with all the positive aspects of the original post. I disagree with the bulk of the rest, and the wording of the thread title and its general negativity towards the Bard changes in 6.0. I find them all to be wonderful in practice - especially with songs continuing to provide repertoire outside of active combat. Getting the most out of coda also gives us an extra "lever" to work with, where planning ahead how to deal with fight downtime can benefit the entire raid.

Speaking of DOTs, my only contrary opinion on the subject is that "snapshotting" is a poor mechanic that should go away completely by allowing dots to gain or lose the effect of buffs with each damage tick, just as any other active ability would. It's a goofy and unneeded method of providing for optimization, when there are already plenty of other ways to optimize damage through aligning cooldowns as with any other class. Many would defend it as it provides more of a skill ceiling, but in reality I believe the only reason it still exists is due to code limitations.

[Easayia]

I think the issue really is 2 things they listened to the Bards that wanted changes but at the same time they are trying to simplify its learning curve as well as fix anoying things like having to dot mobs constently durring pulls and not having a way to refesh them all when pulls last longer. Its not realistic for a bard to have to Tab to each mob to refresh the dots like we had to do through all of Shadowbringers. Their change fixed this their change also made dots just damage you want to keep up just because its damage and no other reason. I think what really should change is the proc of the song needs to immediately reset blood letter and rain of death rather then just reducing its cooldown as there is a short time before you can use the skill because of this its not huge but it is a bit noticeable when you compare it to Shadowbringers BARD.

I would also love to see Barrage immediately giving us shadowbite ready rather then having to hope we proc it being able to use it when we want would be so much better. Personally I like the changes to our AOE rotation outside of that since it basically remained the same pop ballad rain of death > ladonsbite( new quicknock) occationally use Shadowbite into rain of death back into ladons. When you reach 80 charge you use apex into blast arrow for the big damage.

I would like to see sidewinder be based on the dots again as just doing that gives the dots more purpose alone since it did hit hard if you have the dots buffed up with raging strikes during your burst window.

At the same time though we also need to realize that they might have a plan to ditch our dots all together with the next expansion after endwalker and doing so opens up 2 new skill slots...... The problem is what could they add there dots are just so fitting on a job that uses a bow.

This is the best version bard has been though for lower level content hands down because that 80% chance is there through all levels of bard which is just so nice!

[Sylvain]

That said Bard's literally the only job that actually uses DoTs for something interesting so i'd like them to keep it and get a new song phase that alters their GCDs and consolidates their rDPS already.

actually BLM's ThunderIII is much more engaging (or at least used to be) because its duration was too short to always match an ice phase and too rng to be planned around for movement. Unlike BRD which DoT management was an always available gcd made it fairly simple to manage.
Anyone who has played BLM extensively knows that ThunderIII management wasn't so simple as you couldn't simply use it as soon as it proced, as delaying it would mean more potency, but you couldn't always fully delay it because of rotation constraint (astral fire duration, xeno overflow, movement, etc).

That being said, I don't like seeing DoT not interacting with a job kit. While I'm fine with them gradually removing useless DoT on all jobs, DoT do feel part of the BRD identity and it'd be nice if they were more than just a side kick you refresh once every 30s. If anything I wouldn't mind a total rework with more DoT, on different timer and deeper DoT management and interaction for the next expansion.

[Shurrikhan]

actually BLM's ThunderIII is much more engaging (or at least used to be) because its duration was too short to always match an ice phase and too rng to be planned around for movement.

Ahh, yes, "engaging". But, pray tell, is it streamlined? Its rightful place is under UI, no? So why should it not last perfectly from UI phase to UI phase?

Such utter clunk needed fixing. It was clearly an oversight on the devs' part and we should all be grateful it's gone. /s

(I feel like half of those in XIV who'd encounter a decision to be made as a result of something's duration immediately insist it must be broken, rather than that decisions are --shocking though it may be-- gameplay.)

[Kosachi]

Hopping onto this thread pretty late but I'll weigh in. I feel like the Media Tour build was pretty dang close to what people have been asking for. It was very simple to pick up and learn if you're new and still has the same feel as it did during SB and ShB. It also had a lot of room for skill expression as it still rewarded you for having uptime on dots with double procs, variable use time on Finale, having two RS per 2m rotation and 30s on BA rewarded players for buff awareness and knowing the jobs/party comp you were running with. The main complaint that I saw floating on the internet is having two stacks of BL wasn't enough but we have three on the live build so that's fixed.

My biggest issues with the live version of bard is as follows:
1) The lack of double procs slowed down the flow of the job in WM and MB to a crawl and removed the reward from optimal play and maintaining dots on one or several targets. Since our burst phases are spread further apart now, the downtime is dreadful.
2) BA being reduced to 10s removes the rewards I listed above. In the vast majority of cases, if you see 80 gauge, you just use it. No thoughts, head empty unless you're 20-ish seconds away from a burst window.
3) My gripe with the CD change on Finale is pretty minor, but having the option there would still be nice nonetheless.
4) Having Raging Strikes every 60s gave the job a sense of business that hasn't been seen since Stormblood and it sorely misses.
5) Full refreshes on BL pleaaaaaaaaaaaaase.

With all this stated, the one and only thing that I think the job needs the most is to move procs back to the dots. the absence of double dots and no reward for multi-dotting feels dreadful and just makes the job feel like a burst shot simulator. The media tour is one of my favourite iterations of the job I have ever seen and would love a return that direction. Easy to learn but plenty of room and reward for mastery. The current build feels like it lacks any sense of reward for people who learn the nitty gritty mechanics and us old fogeys who've been with the job for many many years now.

Disclaimer: This is my opinion and all that.

[Jirah]

I’ve said my concerns and my suggestions, as word vomit as it sounds off the top of my head, are as follows with the kit currently available:

Give Sidewinder it’s Dot enhancement. So far their isn’t a single skill the dots do anything with and removing sidewinders additionals was abit pointless, at best it’s a reminder to keep dots up.

Have Shadowbite increase repertoire. This adds a very very dire and missing flavor the the songs aoe comp. as it stands BRD has the worst aoe in the game (maybe fairs better than MCH) due to its singular attack, outside the very long 120 mages ballad mark and comes off inorganic. This won’t solve it out right but will give it some depth.

Blast Arrow ready be 30s. Every other ready skill is 30s makes no sense this is the shortest one

Have Army’s increase the proc rate of Shadow and Refulgent. I don’t mind army’s pseudo Rapid fire thing it has but I mind it when theirs only 1 button to press half the time. At the very least increase the proc rate

Bring back Wide Volley, hear me out. Have Wide volley be exactly like shadow bite for lower levels. That way it’s not infuriating mundane. 1 GCD and 1 OGCD aoe for 70 levels is madness. It was tolerable in SHB due to the dot spreading and Rain spam but with 120 intervals it’s not.

For resources they have or with the kit that’s the best I can do. Without however I still need to get BRD to 90 to fully gauge it’s potential and it’s faults

[Shurrikhan]

[Warning] Crazy Talk:

Can we give Venomous/Caustic Bite and Wind/Stormbite a reason to exist besides "maintain per 45s for slight bonus damage in ST if the enemy will live longer than 13.7|17 seconds"?