The Atrocious Changes to Bard in Endwalker and the future

[ardrej]

I think the changes are not as bad as some made it seem, I however miss very much the frantic blood letter/rain of death pushing during big pulls were you get 3+ enemy properly dot-ed just a shame the jobs feels a little less busy. But besides that the fact we are no longer tone-deaf bards is very nice

[Easayia]

Agreed the kit feels more complete but the AOE lost its feel a bit that and song 3 feels so long now I liked cutting it early and going right back into burst mode was nice. But ya Bards play outside of mobbing is basically the same people are for sure over reacting.

[baklava151]

The DoTs change was the biggest mistake for me, who the heck was asking for that. I feel like it's part of a larger campaign to get rid of DoTs (SMN, NIN). The Shadowbite change actually does make mob packs a little more interesting, but it should have stayed as was and they could have added another skill that would be the AOE analogue to Refulgent Arrow. Blast Arrow is pretty neutral, doesn't really add or take away anything. If they do change anything in future patches, I would at least want DoTs to proc songs again.

[Sindal]

My thoughts after doing some dungeons and overland stuff but still getting to 90.

-dots being less necessary was an interesting direction but I can understand why it was done. They're still there adding damage but less of a bump if you happen to accidentally drop them. And this is from someone who loves DoT gameplay. I don't personally mind it, but it would have been nice to add a trait that said something like "If the target dies while dotted, the remaining duration of the dot spreads to another target nearby". Not quite spreading, but allowing targets that die quickly to act as hosts.

-on that note: repertoire being 80% across the board at all levels is something I support. It's odd not knowing 'what' it uses to tick, like every 3 seconds or something? But even so, in practice the proc rate is the same as it was as if you had applied 2 dots to a boss with the upgraded dots. It Also makes the lower levels a lot more consistent. Your proc rate used to depend on where in the game you were and there are times at lower levels when you'd play WM and you'd barely sneak in 1 full pitch perfect. That's not as much as a problem anymore. I feel like I get them regularly enough that I'm always aware that it's proccing (even when the fights ended) and not as much as I would have gotten if I dotted 2 targets up but the consistency is nice. I feel like if your learning bard, you won't ever get a scenario where you don't get enough to think "Ugh, I barely get any of these fancy class specific proc things".

-Getting the buff from our songs and battle voice is nice. Plain and simple. Getting an additional 90 buff song is also neat, recycled as the effect may be.

-Songs being longer is a mind shift, but less busy work in a rotation and the burst window lining up is nice. Dots should last long, in my opinion, otherwise they might as well just be normal direct damage. Dots are made to bleed targets dry. This is a preference I know but I prefer the change.

-I'm one of those weirdos who likes army's paean the most because I just like the feeling of firing my skills faster. I wish it had a secondary function when it gets more than 4 repertoire but being a fast archer for 45 seconds is neat. Speaking of that

- I actually quite like shadowbite as our 'aoe refulgent'. Because AP makes us go fast, that's just more opportino4s to get your bigger aoe. No one was wowed by its last form so this helps integrate it a bit better. It makes me feel like either AP or MB is decent for aoe even though one is probalby still strictly better. Especially since barrage can work with it too (as awkward as it can be to proc).

-we don't trigger them as much, but the blood letter change and how it interacts with MB feels more forgiving to me. It also gives me 'permission' to use my other while the charges are busy filling up. Fire off a blood letter, fire off the new side winder, Fire off another blood letter, empereals which helps replenish your stock. Previously you had to make a clear decision of which one you give up. Your ogcd cooldowns or a repertoire proc. That's less of a problem now, and things being less of a problem is something I suppose.

All in all, it flows better to me and I like it. Could we have a little better? Sure. But I'm pleased with the changes after getting a handle on them.

[Adonan]

Huh...from all the praise I've heard about the changes to Bard, I thought I was in a very small minority on this one.

[Shurrikhan]

At this point I just want...

• Barrage to either gain a second charge and not proc Refulgent Arrow or to also proc Shadowbite.
• To see more flexibility from our songs. For instance, I'd like to see each grant a buff for 120s so we can rotate as late as an average of 40 seconds each, but have their cooldowns reduced to 30 seconds.
• A less boring Sidewinder.
• To again have controllable, varying proc rates, such as we previously had in multi-DoT scenarios.
• I want to spam Burst/Refulgent less. I'd even happily sacrifice Iron Jaws or DoT duration just to have more to do than just spam what's basically one skill (since you'll never hold onto RA). Alternatively, let us bank RA so there might, once per blue moon, be some reason to hold onto it.

[franklinwi]

Between BL charges, Blast Arrow, and Radiant Finale I like the busier burst window and think that's good. Still adjusting but in single target scenarios I think things are pretty good, although Mage's Ballad used to be my favorite song so seeing what they did to its chaotic BL procs kinda bums me out. For trash packs, I think I need to spend some time farming level 90 dungeons to develop a real opinion, but so far I'd say Blast Arrow and the new Shadowbite are nice additions, but they don't come close to making up for the loss of dotting tons of enemies during the pull and then feeling really rewarded for that with a chaotic and stuffed Mage's Ballad. Mage's Ballad in dungeons used to be the single best part of BRD, and that's just gone.

Dungeon trash aside, I think the rework is fine. I'd tentatively rank EW BRD below both SB and ShB but I still like it enough to play it.

[Easayia]

I like blast arrow a lot because you do apex > sidewinder > Blasting it feels very good to use in this way during the burst phase. The Dot changes really didnt effect that much just a different ability your getting your procs from the rate feels almost if not the same.

[Easayia]

Between BL charges, Blast Arrow, and Radiant Finale I like the busier burst window and think that's good. Still adjusting but in single target scenarios I think things are pretty good, although Mage's Ballad used to be my favorite song so seeing what they did to its chaotic BL procs kinda bums me out. For trash packs, I think I need to spend some time farming level 90 dungeons to develop a real opinion, but so far I'd say Blast Arrow and the new Shadowbite are nice additions, but they don't come close to making up for the loss of dotting tons of enemies during the pull and then feeling really rewarded for that with a chaotic and stuffed Mage's Ballad. Mage's Ballad in dungeons used to be the single best part of BRD, and that's just gone.

Dungeon trash aside, I think the rework is fine. I'd tentatively rank EW BRD below both SB and ShB but I still like it enough to play it.

I dont really understand why people think Endwalker Bard is Below Shadow Bringers...... The only thing that really changed is what is ticking for the procs. your rotation even for mobbing is the same practically except its a new version of quicknock the proc chance isnt as high but from what I have found I can quick knock > rain of death consistently with Ballad up just as before and when shadow bite is up you shoot it off > rain of death back into quicknock > rain of death. You also now have the option to buff that Shadowbite to hit harder. It plays almost the same and you can still dot the mobs as people pull I still do its just your doing it for the ticking damage and not for the procs every bit helps.

on top of this our songs are longer , only one that effect is negative for is peon the rest it is a nice buff also everything is in our 120sec burst window now including the new stuff which is just super nice

[ExcMiddle]

I am joining the conversation as a bard player who had started playing this game in July during the last patch in ShB. In this time, I had gone from playing the msq, to clearing the last raid tier, to clearing past fights mine, to clearing TEA 1 week before EW's release. I had gone from knowing nothing to falling in love with the one I had started up with. I remember being upset with myself with little mistakes I made as I was tackling savages (with occasional dropping dots) and then learning how each actor had their own timer for when things would tick all at the same time. So I found this way the core of the job that is Bard in ShB is a job about planning out your 0GCDs. You have some information in the form of stacks, duration, cooldowns, any utility you need to use in the fight and you use that to make a plan for the next two weave windows you will be having. It took me a bit to feel I was comfortable enough before I started tracking my dot timing and getting refining things more and more but eventually I got the hang of it and by the last time I played, it had become second nature to me.

Then I started doing TEA. That core gets more nuanced there as the dots are offset during the first phase (2 targets that have spawned at different times). It might sound chaotic at first and to an extent, the cooldown of pitch perfect becomes a restriction to consider but sparing further details it all kind of fits together in a quite nice way. It felt rewarding to dot all available targets in this fight, manage my resources properly and trying to grab little edges.

I know this is just my perspective but I know that every bard player I have talked to that has cleared this fight revered the two target section of it over anything single target they have had with this job. However I am writing this to give my story on why I liked the core of bard in ShB.

Which is also why I feel alienated by how they moved procs away from dot ticks and into just a single proc from your song. Multi target fights, lose their nuance and single target ogcd planning,... well it just gets too predictable. All the planning in WM is now just an opener. The dot tracking in MB to maximise your BLs, is now irrelevant, granted the song is now almost as interesting and interractive as AP was in ShB.

As dungeons are brought up, it used to be you would be using quite often QN and 2 RoD's in your ogcd window while fighting trash, along with 1-3 apex arrows depending on the dungeon, add survival, luck. I think that the shadowbite proc combo for aoe they added helps control the chaos and manage your resources better,... but the loss of dot procs means there is nothing to manage to begin with.

The core is gone, MB is worse than AP, MB has lost part of what made the song distinct and if summoner had to lose his dots, why should bard have those 3 abilities if they serve no purpose?