Are some jobs 'too feminine' in aesthetics?

[Xirean]

I don't see the point in gendering things like class animations, graphics, or outfits. Robes have been a gender neutral thing for a large part of human history. Most things that people would call a dress are just robes. Also who cares? this seems silly

[Kolsykol]

Why is this only an issue in one direction?
Or at least an '' acceptable to complain about issue ''.
If you say that a character, job, class etc isn't feminine enough and is too masculine people just tend to mock you ( see recent discussions about this in New World, even the titles in New World are for male characters female characters are literally an afterthought ).
Either that or people assume that if you want more feminine options it means that you literally want plate bikinis ( again see New World discussions ).

Games in the West are extremely male-centric I think people can manage with a little bit of femininity every now and again.
It can be thought of more as elegant, to some extent Urianger is a bit effeminate but I still think that he makes it work and still feels like a man.
Being elegant and wearing more elaborate and ornamental clothing was very normal for men historically ( frills etc included ).

I mean no one is complaining that WAR is '' too masculine '' but oh WHM isn't gruff and bulky suddenly it's an issue?

I don't see the point in gendering things like class animations, graphics, or outfits. Robes have been a gender neutral thing for a large part of human history. Most things that people would call a dress are just robes. Also who cares? this seems silly

For the most part I agree with you I think that people are labelling a lot of things as '' feminine '' just simply because it's not pants or grey or gruff/ edgy.
Look at kilts for example, but a lot of people will think that's '' girly ''.
There are many points in history too where skirts and what a lot of people would think of as '' dresses '' was worn by men.

On the other hand I also disagree to some extent, I think it has more to do with what we consider normal.
The reason why armor design today for example is often so bulky and broad is because that is what '' we '' consider to be masculine and yada yada yada war was historically a masculine thing yada yada affects our views and norms today etc etc.
Broad and bulky armor designs that you see in most fantasy IS gendered, but people don't realize it I think that it's mostly subconscious.

It's why people can lose their minds when they see a breastplate that has a narrow waist or a feminine chest on it even tho breastplates shaped like corsets were actually normal at one point because thin waists was considered manly but today it's the reverse.
And people are so used to seeing mens bodies in connection to war and combat that they don't react to seeing a highly detailed male chest and abs but when they see a womans chest on it then it stands out more to some people.

( I don't even want to get into the '' realism '' argument here, but just no it's not unrealistic at all... There are COUNTLESS of breastplates worn historically that disproves all of the claims, Brigandines with its flat surface alone disproves all of the '' physics '' claims and so does the corset ones. Regardless, realism doesn't even matter in 9 out of 10 cases and applying it solely to that is just stupid and incredibly biased for no reason. )

They never really think about it it's just purely a reaction out of societal norms imbued in them on a cultural level.
Same as how a woman will stand out a lot in a medieval army but men won't regardless of any other factors, even if she's basically Brienne from GoT she'll still stand out because people are instinctually all like '' woah this is different I am not used to this ''.
Even if it's actually normal in the setting itself, players STILL react to it.

I think it's the same here people are so used to their male characters always wearing stereotypically masculine clothes and moving their bodies like gruff dudes in games especially in connection to war.
Which is not at all how it has been at many points of history often times being what we'd consider to be feminine today was very masculine, great warriors and heroes were often described as very beautiful and elegant in their mannerism.
If you showed a lot of the stuff we have today to our ancestors they'd think a lot of it was effeminate.
But people will be more accepting of a woman taking on masculine traits and wearing more masculine clothes because she's '' one of the boys ''.

So yes things are very gendered, but it's also mostly subconscious when it comes to masculinity while with femininity its' a lot more '' othered '' so it draws more attention and people have stronger reactions against it.
Even tho basically everything they like is extremely hypermasculine but they treat is as '' neutral gendered ''.
Even when people talk about what's '' cool '' it's basically only from a stereotypical masculine lens.

Most (if not all) casters artifact sets are pretty much feminine, as in made to be wear by female characters, but there is a lot of "masculine" caster gear out there, especially poetics gear.

So I do not agree that the jobs per se are feminine, but their artifact gear is.

I'd agree with this, the Artifact gear tho is meant to get the base fantasy across and it does its job well.
But outside of that you have so much to play around with to make your character how you want.

As far as the animations goes I also think that more elegant movements just feel a bit like they make more sense for a caster especially a healer that is inherently more gentle.
You can feel it with Y'shtola in cutscenes for example she's way more aggressive when she's in action while Urianger remains elegant and more in control.
I wouldn't say that Urianger is '' unmanly '' tho, if people feel that way about their character I think the issue lies elsewhere because Urianger proves that's not how it needs to be imo.

[Shurrikhan]

Robes have been a gender neutral thing for a large part of human history.

There's a fair difference between robes alike to the Nomad or Crystarium sets... and those with the lace and ribbons, however.

[Allegor]

There's a fair difference between robes alike to the Nomad or Crystarium sets... and those with the lace and ribbons, however.

It's a "all dresses are robes, but not all robes are dresses" kind of thing.

[MellowMink]

I don't see the point in gendering things like class animations, graphics, or outfits. Robes have been a gender neutral thing for a large part of human history. Most things that people would call a dress are just robes. Also who cares? this seems silly

This. I'm seeing some problematic rhetoric in parts of this thread due to gender stereotypes being perpetuated.