SE FINALLY ANSWERED THE HEALERS COMMUNITY LONG ANSWERED QUESTION

[Sebazy]

Instead of thinking it's a loss, toxicon is more like a make up mechanism for putting on shields, because we will be putting shields on people all the time.

With a GCD? Ehhhh maybe if we see a return to bosses auto attacking with instant or at least quick casting tankbusters. But assuming Savage content stays inline with what we've generally seen ever since Creator. Not so much =/

Outside of Savage? It's about the least efficient use for a GCD in combat sadly =/

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Eukresian Diagnosis > Dosis III > Dosis III > Toxicon II
4 GCDs that puts out a total of 990p damage, 810p heal, & 540p shield.

Dosis III > Dosis III > Dosis III > Dosis III
4 GCDs that puts out a total of 1,320p damage & 680p heal.

Assuming encounter design remains the same & with SCH has always been avoiding clone GCD outside progging… I see even less reason for SGEs to try shielding. Addersting also only procs if the shield breaks.

Toxicon is poor man’s Afflatus Misery.

[Pallero]

Instead of thinking it's a loss, toxicon is more like a make up mechanism for putting on shields, because we will be putting shields on people all the time.

The only phase in the entire game where i can think of this upcoming version of toxicon to matter is Nael in ucob. With bad enough rng and getting targeted by every dive and thunder imaginable, it's the only fight where i had kinda nothing real to do with WHMs instant repertoire because the previous gcd i already regened the mt and everyone's full already most of the time anyway. That's where every 2nd "regen" would be rewarded with a toxicon instead of re-aero for that 50 potency instant.
But even that is really just because misery is above the level cap. Toxicon at least is a spell available since the early levels.

For any other fight in the game, the vast majority of the cases, only way i see adders sting being used as is farming them prepull / on downtime whenever possible. But then again i don't really see why'd one bother that if 1,5 sec castbars on the nuke already pretty much enable all the mobility the game ever needed.
I have no idea why'd it only specify the single target shield. I hope they'll soon edit the tooltip of adder sting to also include the aoe spell, so that downtime preparation doesn't have to look like succor -> 3x addlo in preparation to get three stacks.

Hoping they'll at least add also Addersting to the "recitation" of sage, which in current iteration states nothing else than "gain 1 addersgall", that's it. Which doesn't state "in combat" yet btw, but i assume it will.

[GrimGale]

Instead of thinking it's a loss, toxicon is more like a make up mechanism for putting on shields, because we will be putting shields on people all the time.

You'd think that a Job that in yoshiP's words "is focused on dealing damage" would reward prompt use of its healing abilities by completely refunding the damage you would have lost by using your mitigation.

[Mortex]

You'd think that a Job that in yoshiP's words "is focused on dealing damage" would reward prompt use of its healing abilities by completely refunding the damage you would have lost by using your mitigation.

It’s ironic how reaper actually has a way more risk/reward group hot then most healer have. Healer gameplay is so straightforward that if it would accelerate it would fly off eorzea and reach omegas and migars galaxy.

[KDSilver]

Instead of thinking it's a loss, toxicon is more like a make up mechanism for putting on shields, because we will be putting shields on people all the time.

If Toxicon was 660p, then yes, it would make up for the GCD lost in the shield.
The other situation when Toxicon might be dps neutral is if you use it to move and had no other solution.

Otherwise that's a flat loss.

+ we don't shield in ST that much, except if they drastically change it in future savage content and beyond.
Even if they don't want to refund a full Dosis loss, Toxicon should have higher potency.

[Deceptus]

Eukresian Diagnosis > Dosis III > Dosis III > Toxicon II
4 GCDs that puts out a total of 990p damage, 810p heal, & 540p shield.

Dosis III > Dosis III > Dosis III > Dosis III
4 GCDs that puts out a total of 1,320p damage & 680p heal.

Assuming encounter design remains the same & with SCH has always been avoiding clone GCD outside progging… I see even less reason for SGEs to try shielding. Addersting also only procs if the shield breaks.

Toxicon is poor man’s Afflatus Misery.

Especially when you consider you'll have a partner to help with the healing load.

And if 2 sages are doing that . . .

[Mortex]

Especially when you consider you'll have a partner to help with the healing load.

And if 2 sages are doing that . . .

To be fair in a lot of high end fights you have phases were you run a bit and sometimes you can’t target the boss In these. Gives you at-least the option to throw 3 shields on dps and get 3 instant cast gcd for later movement phases. It’s ofc a bit niche and can’t be used in all fights but it’s not so bad as people do think it is. It does give sage the option too get a gcd instant dmg spell in situations were all the other heals just can’t do anything except maybe astro draw cards or whm use lily that would maybe over cap. Also sage has his dash on a ok cooldown that also gives him more mobility. It’s just ironic that sage is also now a better whm then whm itself.

[Mortex]

Funny is also as sch for a big shield on the party you need to adlo spread recitation and both in endwalker have a 90 second cooldown. Sage has Zoe on a 90 second cooldown making his aoe shield heal for 200 with 320 % shield. In a non crit situation it’s a better adlo spread then scholar has. In a crit situations has it more shield strength then sch. Ofc it’s not all the time possible but it’s still funny too think about.

[Gemina]

The unfortunate fact is that it's been visibly demonstrated time and time again that at least as far as healers go, SE only really seem to pay attention to clear rates of various levels of content...

... I wonder if a part of Yoshida's reasoning that healer's are currently 'fine' is that these days, healer clear rates are all fairly well balanced now. I don't think they are invested enough in the healer role to actually sit down and look first hand at how dire the gameplay is especially in casual content. Rather they are just getting random test teams from SE's pool, potentially with little experience of the game and going with them for feedback.

While all of this is valid from an observational standpoint, the reasoning is still inductive. It's based on the impression that everyone is dissatisfied with the current state of healers. It should go without saying that not all players are dissatisfied with the healer status quo. I wouldn't take that to mean that I don't believe there's a disconnect, but I also wouldn't be so quick to believe that having a healer oriented person on this design team would magically 'fix' things.

I can't even pretend to know Yoshida's reasoning behind any of his decisions. I can only try to make sense of them in my own mind. I do know that he values the views and experiences of his dev team, and the playerbase both. I know he can't greenlight every suggestion tossed at him, and has to make educated and informed decisions when it comes to what makes it into game as each one becomes a huge commitment on his part. Take that into mind when it comes to current healer design, and the decision to go down this road that was made years ago, as well as the health of this game long term.

As you pointed out in the portion of your post I omitted, there were a lot of problems back in the days of Gordias, Midas, even into Deltascape. It really was a cluster of nonsense, and the leap frogging of healers from patch to patch was among the most cumbersome. Those days are gone now though for the most part now, so why wouldn't they think it's fine? They don't think it's "fine" though. That's a bad business motto to have. Nevertheless that giant storm that was present back then has dissipated.

The current, and I stress the very delicate balance being maintained was costly for all three roles. As observant as you have expressed to be, you should be well aware that Tanks and even DPS jobs all took a huge hit in terms of versatility and complexity. Things like tank stance swapping and enmity shedders were big parts of the gameplay of those two roles respectively, and many were displeased that they just nuked it. I wouldn't think for even one moment that Yoshida is not aware of the negative response to this from the game's more advanced players. FFXIV could not have the success it does if he was that level of disconnected from the players and dev team.

My own observations is that Yoshi understands that he's human, and that moving away from 3.x gameplay was costly but necessary. He is aware of the discontent, and I'm sure he's not happy about it. I also believe he's aware that these players feel punished, and punishing those you care for can be one of the most painful experiences anyone can go through. I see this written all over his face when he knows he has to deliver disappointing news.

The man is not infallible. This team has made a TON of mistakes along the way. Yoshi knows this too. It's been a learning process, and they are still learning and adapting on their end as well. This should be seen as huge positive on everyone's behalf.