Changes to Ninja I'd like people's thoughts on

[Flynn89]

1) I don't understand how that makes more sense.

2) No Just no to all of that. And here is why:
Long range combo: We literally don't need a long range combo. If you're away from the boss for long enough to do a 3gcd ranged combo, I hate to say it, but you're not playing melee right. Even in the harder content, you only spend 1, MAYBE 2 gcd away from the boss before you can go back in safely and do your damage. Also, you're not asking for Trick Attack or Shadowfang there. Your asking for completely new abilities you wished were named "Trick Attack" and "Shadow Fang".
Chances to do things: There is a reason why AST cards got gutted in ShB, and that is because nobody likes chances, and it doesn't feel that good. And their odds of getting a "useful" buff back then were 30%. So unless the abilities guarantee a blind or a dot, they won't feel good to use at all, and aren't contributing as much as they should be. Also, Trick Attack already gives essentially a defense down to your target for 15s. It really does not need the added blindness.

3)Completely pointless because you're already behind the boss and in melee range 99% of the time. That 1% is for when you're Armor Crushing. Actually, it would cause more harm since the teleporting would just become another animation lock for us to deal with.

1) I'm gonna quote you in point #2 to explain the name change: "Trick Attack already gives essentially a defense down to your target for 15s."

In other words . . . it crushes armor. Why not call it "Armor Crush"?

2) The long-range part was optional, but what you're essentially admitting is that throwing daggers is useless. Personally, I like to keep my distance during enemy AOE spams. Secondly, I like chances. They feel better to me than an oGCD with a 60s CD. Thirdly, the changes to trick attack were POST-name change. So no, I wasn't adding blindness to trick attack in addition to the damage debuff. They remain on two different abilities. I was adding blindness onto armor crush(pre-name change).

Keep in mind, Yoshi-P just announced that they got rid of shadowfang altogether.

3) Well I see no real reason to use mug then. The animation would have been as quick as shukuchi. And armor crush(without the name change) competes with aeolian slash.

So now shadowfang is gone, throwing daggers are useless, mug is useless, and armor crush renders aeolian slash useless. Ninja's non-mudra actions remain boring, repetitive and lacking in utility. Would you rather fill your hotbar with useless abilities, or abilities with proc-potential that combo?

Also, I can't help but notice that you might like playing Bard or Dancer, since they offer everything you want that you posted.

OMG, lol no. Not into those classes. Don't mistake my complaints for a dislike of ninja. I love ninja. It's fun, but it could be more fun and streamlined.

[Realism_Snide]

1) I'm gonna quote you in point #2 to explain the name change: "Trick Attack already gives essentially a defense down to your target for 15s."

In other words . . . it crushes armor. Why not call it "Armor Crush"?

Because your giving your enemy a surprise stab in the back while they are busying themselves with the tank. On the flip side, why call Armor Crush "Trick Attack" when there is nothing sneaky or tricky about it? Either way, I'm not changing the names.

2) The long-range part was optional, but what you're essentially admitting is that throwing daggers is useless. Personally, I like to keep my distance during enemy AOE spams. Secondly, I like chances. They feel better to me than an oGCD with a 60s CD. Thirdly, the changes to trick attack were POST-name change. So no, I wasn't adding blindness to trick attack in addition to the damage debuff. They remain on two different abilities. I was adding blindness onto armor crush(pre-name change).

Are you blind? I just explained to you how useful Throwing Daggers are. But I guess you prefer doing nothing while you're away from the boss and have no mudras instead of doing some damage and getting some ninki out of it. So the changes are to Armor Crush, an ability that does decent damage and that refreshes Huton. And now you want to add blindness to it on top of that?

Keep in mind, Yoshi-P just announced that they got rid of shadowfang altogether.

I know. RIP Shadowfang :,(. It will be missed.

3) Well I see no real reason to use mug then. The animation would have been as quick as shukuchi. And armor crush(without the name change) competes with aeolian slash.

Mug gives you 40 ninki, which is then used on either Bhavakackra (high damage single target), Hellfrog (Ranged aoe damage), or Bunshin (doubles your weaponskill attacks and ninki gain from those skills for 5 uses). I agree that mug is useless below lvl 60 (as does most of NIN's kit, sadly, especially below 50), but you will see it does become useful later. Shukuchi isn't as fast as you think it is. It would still be an animation lock as long as Assassinate's animation lock. I still don't see how those 2 compete? You need 1 to refresh Huton, and you need the other for the damage.

So now shadowfang is gone, throwing daggers are useless, mug is useless, and armor crush renders aeolian slash useless. Ninja's non-mudra actions remain boring, repetitive and lacking in utility. Would you rather fill your hotbar with useless abilities, or abilities with proc-potential that combo?

I'd rather fill my hotbar with these useful abilities that you call useless than with abilities that have a low chance of being useful and a ranged combo we don't need.

[Realism_Snide]

I do agree with you that NIN could be more fun. Just not with those changes. If they brought back some of our utility that we used to have (like Jugulate, which silences our foe, or our aggro management tools, or even our own unique attack down ability to help mitigate strong aoes), but keep the current mudra system, I would find it even more fun and satisfying.