Can we finally get real content / gameplay?

[Absimiliard]

About the only thing in this post I can even remotely agree with is the bit about relic weapons. Those truly are functionally useless. SE really needs to look at allowing us to get them in time for current content if we're willing to put in the work. For as involved as the process of getting them is, the inability to take advantage of them for progression is a real waste.

Now, on the subject of dungeons:
Most of us prefer them to be straightforward. We want to get in, do a few wall to wall pulls, and get out. We don't want to have to run around and explore some place that we know we're going to be in five billion times because of roulettes. I'd love a set of optional, savage+ difficulty dungeons on the side, though. Something that allows four skilled players to go in and earn savage-equivalent gear for succeeding.

To raids:
You can only add so much complexity before it becomes tiresome. Even still, the fights generally get a little more complex each expansion. For how few expansions the game has seen, they've found a lot of new mechanics to add. This is also one of the few games to have bosses actively overlap mechanics that are nearly incompatible with one another. FFXIV is already at the point where some dungeon bosses, and not even necessarily endgame ones, are more mechanically involved than some of WoW's mythic raid bosses. As for kiting? There have been fights in the past that required a tank, DPS, or healer to kite, and there will be again - there always is. Heck, you can find a fight where kiting is encouraged (though admittedly not required) as early as Cutter's Cry, and that awful place is an ARR dungeon.

To FATEs:
The reliance on FATEs does get old after a while, I will concede, but it does help to futureproof content. It also helps open special events up to lower level players, allowing them to engage more completely. Other MMOs tend to limit lower level player interactions with special holidays or events.

To classes:
Having options is by no means a bad thing, but there is such a thing as too many abilities. Most of what they've removed was already superfluous to begin with. Of course, there were some jobs that got nailed to the wall and completely lost their identity {*cough* DARK KNIGHT *cough*), but the majority seemed to come away in ways the majority found pleasing. ...And ultimately that is who SE must cater to: the majority. Not catering to the majority means not making money, which in turn means the game gets shelved and we all move on to play something else.

[ssunny2008]

Snip

Dungeons: I´m pretty sure that the overall mind would be way different if the dungeons would be quality ones and the loot necessary to prepare for raiding or to get special pets / mounts. Ppl do Raids for the exact same thing. Fun to beat a challenge, to get better gear and the mount.

Raids: Wow have become a joke too, but that´s not the place for it here. SHB Raids are mostly bad in its design and i can´t see and progress from the devs side when it comes to the mechs. Especially E9-E12s have become really bad... interesting with the shadows in E10, but still bad.
E7s and E8s were completely different. Still not that stuff i would expect, but an OT was useful, you needed to kite and silence. In E8s you had no safespot, you had a DPS check, you needed stun, silence an even cleanse (esuna). This is the direction this game should go and having kiting healers / DD´s, why not? DPS should do more than avoiding aoe´s and 123 anyway.

Fates: Still tbh, calling 1 Fate and event is nothing but a joke. They could do a lot for new players too. As i said, the wall climbing summer event was something different. And sometimes you need to eat the pill and say "It´s an MMORPG and guys who´ve started yesterday can´t enjoy this event. Go level up first."
And spamming fates in 10 different ways is no good content. (Normal Fates, Chainfates, Fate questlines, Bozja, Eureka, Relic Fate grind, SHB Fate vendors, Hunt mobs as Fate) The creativity of SE lacks hard there.


Classes: The Majority is just chilling in Limsa and doesn´t even play the game properly especially in endgame content. It doesn´t matter if SE is building a well designed construct or just 123 for them. They keep running easy content which will be done in some way anyway. That means they could easily design better raids and better classes, probably even with customization for all who wants to compete in the endgame. That the subclasses lose everything for the kind of balancing is a bad thing. Especially playing Tank or RDPS is super boring. Being healer is only excited, when someone fcks it up.

[catofsnake]

Now, on the subject of dungeons:
Most of us prefer them to be straightforward. We want to get in, do a few wall to wall pulls, and get out. We don't want to have to run around and explore some place that we know we're going to be in five billion times because of roulettes. I'd love a set of optional, savage+ difficulty dungeons on the side, though. Something that allows four skilled players to go in and earn savage-equivalent gear for succeeding.

I have to question if dungeons *need* to be roulette content to be spammed over and over again, though. Think, why do you want to get in and get out? For your EXP/tomes? But, why do you need that EXP and tomestones? To gear and level up a job to use in higher and higher content, right? But what's even the point if you're not going to be playing harder and deeper content? Even savages after a point don't need max tomes once you learn a fight and get down your rotation.

I think it's an utter waste of a content slot for dungeons to be forced to be 10-15 minute aoe spam/striking dummy games. A common response I always read when someone proposes complexifying dungeons is "I don't want to have to do this the nth time when I just want to finish my roulette for my exp/tokens". But, this response barely considers the idea beyond an initial glance. Wouldn't exp/tomes be scaled up if the content had a higher average required time? Wouldn't potential optional paths also give a bonus for EXP/tokens? Shouldn't the massive work in art assets, concepts, music, etc. be put to deeper use rather than a mindless piece of content you'll enjoy once and then autopilot the rest of the time . . ?

It *is* really disappointing to me to look at areas with amazing designs, art, and thematic/vibes such as St. Morcianne's Arbotoreum, and see that in game it is only a straightforwards path of 2 sets of mob packs and boss x3. In that way, virtually all of dungeons can only truly be enjoyed once before they turn into 15 minute button grinders.

And at the same time, dungeons need to not be the content to be spammed for leveling.
Either by scaling up the EXP per run ratio, or by creating a new niche of content for small groups to do. In fact, wasn't FFXIV originally meant to be a game where you do quests to level up? A rework of quest exp/levequests could be in order...

anyways, point is, there's no point in taking a break if the content in of itself isn't interesting/new iterations of the content will be the same.

FFXIV is already at the point where some dungeon bosses, and not even necessarily endgame ones, are more mechanically involved than some of WoW's mythic raid bosses.

Oh, and I'm interested to hear what you mean by this/hear some examples. I haven't played any WoW mythics, but that sounds like a rather bold claim.

[ItMe]

FFXIV is already at the point where some dungeon bosses, and not even necessarily endgame ones, are more mechanically involved than some of WoW's mythic raid bosses.

Oh, and I'm interested to hear what you mean by this/hear some examples. I haven't played any WoW mythics, but that sounds like a rather bold claim.

Bumping because I would also like to know what's being referenced.

[ssunny2008]

Bumping because I would also like to know what's being referenced.

Probably nothing. Ppl just hear rumors and think they´re correct.
I personally haven´t played WoW that much. I know it got casualized much, but it´s not on the level FF14 is. But i´ve played a bunch of other MMORPG´s and they definately do a better job in case of mechanic designs. Here we´ve stack / spread mechanics, moving to safespots and some debuffs to play around (which mostly last in "move to spot X") meanwhile performing a strict rotation which got already "perfectly" matched into the content by the devs. If i would need to compare the difficulty of dungeons / raids to similar PvE content in other games, FF14 is definately at the last place.