I really hope than Fandaniel and Zenos are not... (spoilers)

[KizuyaKatogami]

elidibus really deserved a whole expansion dedicated to him, tbh

He honestly did. I feel like they just gave what he was supposed to be entirely to Emet, and just sidelined him. Then used him for shitty fanservice lol. The only thing i can really hope for is he somehow comes back but at this point they seem to just want to quickly end things so :/ But yeah the thing that will always leave me salty is zenos of all people getting not 1 but two expansions dedicated to him, and having double if not triple the amount of screentime elidibus had. It’s why i can’t take people seriously when they’re still saying “give him a chance.” He’s had two expansions now to have his chance, he hasn’t changed. He’s cost us two good characters at this point i’m just hoping he’s killed off early in 6.0.

[Chekopacheko]

Out of nowhere, it's Necron!

Oh boy, that would be hilarious

[ReynTime]

Wish Emet lasted until 5.3 and then we got Elidibus, not spoiled priviledged bored sleepy anime boy, for the 6.0 antagonist.

Oh boy, we're going to speedrun sharlayan's "redemption arc", aren't we? It took more than 3.0 to deal with ishgard, and now we're going to deal with sharlayan AND the calamity+Garlemald+etc in a single base expansion. I just hope they don't half-ass the garlean conflict, since I'm more intrigued by them than thavnair etc.

Garlemald was doomed the moment they decided that "ascians did it" was a good origin story for the empire.

[Theodric]

Garlemald was doomed the moment they decided that "ascians did it" was a good origin story for the empire.

I think that there's some rather baffling decisions where Garlemald is concerned. I can't help but wonder how differently the game's story might have gone if the writer largely responsible for ARR and HW had not been quietly shuffled over to FFXVI. I'll be rather disappointed if, in turn, FFXVI ends up revolving around many of the plot points that were hinted at in FFXIV and then quickly abandoned.

The way in which Elidibus and Varis were handled was rather questionable. Both existed since the days of ARR and then both abruptly end up being written off the moment they finally step up and enter the spotlight directly. All so Zenos can inexplicitly hijack the focus of not only Garlemald but the Ascian storyline as well.

I've always been fond of Garlemald, personally - and it's a real shame that more inspiration was not taken from the Archadian Empire of FFXII. Perhaps it will go in that direction after the inevitable Garlemald reconstruction is introduced.

[Lauront]

Wish Emet lasted until 5.3 and then we got Elidibus, not spoiled priviledged bored sleepy anime boy, for the 6.0 antagonist.

Aye, same. Heading into a conflict between Venat, Elidibus and the true instigator (Fandaniel?) of the Final Days in 6.0. At least two of them are still around, I guess, which is why I'm still intrigued enough to see it to the end. If it had just been Zenos, I'd be tuning out.

[ReynTime]

I think that there's some rather baffling decisions where Garlemald is concerned. I can't help but wonder how differently the game's story might have gone if the writer largely responsible for ARR and HW had not been quietly shuffled over to FFXVI. I'll be rather disappointed if, in turn, FFXVI ends up revolving around many of the plot points that were hinted at in FFXIV and then quickly abandoned.

The way in which Elidibus and Varis were handled was rather questionable. Both existed since the days of ARR and then both abruptly end up being written off the moment they finally step up and enter the spotlight directly. All so Zenos can inexplicitly hijack the focus of not only Garlemald but the Ascian storyline as well.

I've always been fond of Garlemald, personally - and it's a real shame that more inspiration was not taken from the Archadian Empire of FFXII. Perhaps it will go in that direction after the inevitable Garlemald reconstruction is introduced.

I'd argue there were a few cool lore/plot points way before that, in 1.0 days, that were disappointingly brushed off with horrible excuses like "calamity did it", such as the elementals in the shroud, the amber rock, much of Vylbrand and while we had/have the political intrigues with the monetarists in Ul'dah the power struggles/scheming to get to the top that was hinted by the intro storyline was honestly a pretty interesting side that got almost as toned down/cast aside as the dark atmosphere of the original shroud.
People like to bash the intro stories from 1.0 as "boring", but I say they're a lot more fascinating than the childish chase against mysterious masked man that the nations got in 2.0. I'd love to revisit those darker sides of each nation but we won't see them again because as of 5.3+ they're all getting the closest thing to a flowery happy ending.
I think the way Garlemald has been treated by the writing is the tip of the iceberg of a lot of interesting things that could have been built up if the original release of the game hadn't been a disaster.

Honestly discussions like these really help me cement the fact this game has long since took a detour that I was never on board with.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Honestly discussions like these really help me cement the fact this game has long since took a detour that I was never on board with.

I originally played this game because i’m a huge fan of the final fantasy series as i’ve stated before. I grew up with it, i was completely enamored bu the various stories, just how dark and realistic they could get etc. It’s why ff12 for example is one of my favorites. It really shows just how brutal can be, and not just for one side. Everyone is shown to be affected by it, everyone has to deal with all of these consequences. 14 sucked me in with ARR and HW and i loved how dark they were. The storytelling was great. Once SB came and then now ShB i was just like…really? Honestly 6.0 is the last chance i’m giving for the game personally. If the story isn’t up to par, then by then i expect some of these newer mmo’s to be out that hopefully won’t let the community take control of storytelling aspects or will actually put more time and effort into the story than we’ve seen lately.

[ReynTime]

Also want to add that you'd think they'd be able to explore more on things like the inner issues in the underworld or shadows of each nation or similar things not necessarily being dark, but even with the sidequests/job quests there is a lot of wasted opportunity because they can't impact the MSQ too much. And when they do bring them up it's usually written in a super rushed, shallow, anime filler-esque script with a LOT of tell don't show happening, making it really hard to care about them.

If they hired a small team dedicated entirely to really digging deep into those internal scenarios for existing nations that we could start and follow completely or partially independently from the MSQ progress... Like, really give me an interesting detailed arc about the Allacran, or whatever is left of the Horn and Hand (they dealt with intel and espinonage dammit that's potential for something interesting), about some of the remaining pirate factions, about Gelmorra, etc, etc... Don't just expect me to pay for a stupid physical book because you refuse to add enough playable content that explores the rich but disappointingly wasted lore that you let rot in regions the MSQ happens not to care much about anymore.

I don't want to just read walls of text about those things. I want a GAME experience with them. Since they will be done with the Hydaelin x Zodiark plot in 6.0, I really wish they'd have a team dedicated to spreading full but meaty optional storylines with fights, mini instances and everything for existing areas. THAT would make me overlook all the design issues I have with current XIV and stick around.

[Terin]

I actually like Zenos decently as a character, but I'm actually personally hoping he's more of a "rival" in the end, not a "villain". Perhaps even SIDING with us in the final stand against Zodiark, effectively the "Vegeta" to our "Goku".

I will say, though, that I'm bummed he's the new poster-boy for Reaper. I kind of liked his "Garlean samurai" vibe, and his armor was SICK! Although he looks a bit more "girly" than I'd have opted.

Fandaniel is definitely hella boring, though. And annoying. But he's not even fun in that "you love to hate him" kind of way, he just feels kind of dull.

[CaesarCV]

Man. I never knew that people had such rough feelings on Shadowbringers and 5.3. I conversely consider them to be some of the heights of the game's storytelling. They have a level of thematic coherence and resonance that no other expansion comes close to matching. Each side plot, each main event (even those stupid trolly boyz) all feed back into the same themes, motifs, and core concepts. It's a level of cohesion that you don't see very often in video games in general, let alone a mass-market MMORPG. Granted, I care a lot more about thematic concerns than 'realism in the setting' or what have you. I felt that Elidibus got one hell of a send-off, even if I understand why some people disagree.

...That being said I certainly have concerns about Zenos. I'm willing to give the writers something of a 'benefit of the doubt due to their now proven track record of turning me around on characters (who would have ever thought I'd love to learn more about Lahabrea or end up loving Ardbert?) but at the moment Zenos's motivations are too weak. He's very much got an anime motivation, and while that makes him fun to watch as a villain (especially paired with Fandaniel, who he has wonderful chemistry with) I worry that he doesn't have the same ideological nature as prior protagonists. Gaius's Darwinian colonialism, Thordan's dogmatism, Emet-Selch's weirdly sympathetic fascism, they all had ideological cores that brought them forward and gave the story life and meaning.

Zenos...wants a big anime swordfight. But again, I'll give a little benefit of the doubt. Big difference between that and optimism though.