Implications of Social-Construct terms of "Humanity" and "Beast"

[Jandor]

I highly doubt it honestly..because the term, Beastmen, is a term invented by the people of Ul'dah than anything else. Same thing for the Spoken which includes the Viera and the Hrothgar.

The beastmen label and the discrimination are both cultural, but the beast races are also clearly different from the human races.

[ReynTime]

The beastmen label and the discrimination are both cultural, but the beast races are also clearly different from the human races.

The Vi from Rak'tika in the first and Au'ra of the steppe aren't different to beast races.

[Jandor]

The Vi from Rak'tika in the first and Au'ra of the steppe aren't different to beast races.

They are though. Seriously, just look at them.

I'm not talking about the various cultures, I'm talking about biology. The human races are all basically human, and the beast races are all basically... well, not human.

[GoldStarz]

They are though. Seriously, just look at them.

I'm not talking about the various cultures, I'm talking about biology. The human races are all basically human, and the beast races are all basically... well, not human.

How are Hrothgar that much different from Lupin (also technically considered a beast race)?

[dreamfisher]

"Humans" (playable races) are distinctly different from the beastmen. The Dragons, Omega, and the Ancients explicitly distinguish humans from non-human races. So far there is no evidence that human souls can reincarnate as anything other than another human.

I might have a bias toward... at least one beast tribe, but what I actually found most interesting was how neither Omega nor Midgardsormr went out of their way to even distinguish us from a chocobo. Such as when Omega said:

He was the first entity I created here in this realm— my first and only attempt to recreate a being who shared your mundane parameters.

And in that same questline Hraesvelgr says:

What is but a fleeting respite for my sire might last a lesser creature's lifetime.

Typically, dragons refer to the star's inhabitants as "mortals," unless they need to be more specific— such as talking about the neighbouring Gnath or Thordan's "children," the people of Ishgard. Occasionally, Hraesvelgr refers to Elezen as "men" or refers to (I suppose) Eorzean as the "tongue of men."
One thing that stands out to me is that during the Dragonsong War, Nidhogg goes out of his way to categorize Elezen as a distinct creature.

They have ever been untrustworthy creatures, these short-lived Elezen.

I struggle to find much evidence against or in favour of the reincarnation angle, though.
I wonder. Aside from the accounts of the Dotharl, what specific examples of reincarnation — that is, following a full return to the "aetherial realm" (also feel free to let me know my if my parlance is outdated) — do we have?

[Jandor]

How are Hrothgar that much different from Lupin (also technically considered a beast race)?

Hrothgar look like anthropomorphic lion characters from a kids movie, Lupin look like someone frankensteined a wolfs head on to a human body.

[RyuDragnier]

I wonder. Aside from the accounts of the Dotharl, what specific examples of reincarnation — that is, following a full return to the "aetherial realm" (also feel free to let me know my if my parlance is outdated) — do we have?

You mean besides our characters, knowing all ShB spoilers?

[dreamfisher]

You mean besides our characters, knowing all ShB spoilers?

Yeah! Though they obviously count, I'm wondering about anyone not directly related to the convocation or the Dotharl.
Just miscellaneous characters mentioned throughout the story who died after the sundering and were believed to have reincarnated as others.
I think all the convocation shards we've seen (aside from in the mirror) were hyur, but it's possible that they've been body-hopping to make sure they were all of similar height when they all stand in a circle. Who knows?

[GoldStarz]

Hrothgar look like anthropomorphic lion characters from a kids movie, Lupin look like someone frankensteined a wolfs head on to a human body.

1) Some people STILL call Hrothgar "roegadyns with a lion's head pasted on" so nice try.
2) Even if you were correct, that would just make Lupins even more human-like than Hroths which further invalidates your point.


There is no confirmed biological or aetherical difference between the playable races and other tribes that would be cause for categorizing them as an other. The concept of Beast Tribe is one purely created out of prejudice and then used by Ascians and Garlemald to further divide people due to their cultural differences. Stormblood makes this initially apparent by telling us the concept of a "Beast Tribe" doesn't exist within Othard (and if it did, Au Ra and Viera would surely be categorized under it). Shadowbringers hammers this home even further by having their version of the Amal'jaa and Kobolds be fully integrated into society while one of the beast tribes of that expac are literally just Lalalfells with armor on.

[Kirisu]

I still think it's weird how Au'ra from the Steppe aren't considered beastmen when some of the beast tribes are a lot more integrated in modern society and more civilized than they are.

That comes from them being native to Othard, and in the Hrothgars case, Ilsabard. The phrases "Beastmen" and "Beast Tribes" originated from Ul'dah, when the Amal'jaa rebuffed their aggressive expansion into Amal'jaa lands. The Syndicate was quick to slap the label on them because they could then impose taxes and security tolls on the trade routes for keeping the roads safe from "Them."

The terms then spread to the other three city-states and was applied to their own indigenous problem-children and the rest is history.

Miqo'te are a tribal culture too and probably narrowly dodged the bullet because 1.) they look comparatively human next to eorzea's other indigenous peoples and 2.) because they folded in with the "Civilized" world where others did not.

Comparatively, the Au Ra and especially Hrothgar immigrants actually faced considerable scrutiny and likely persecution when they first appeared in Eorzea. We know Sidurgu's tribe was more or less exterminated to a man because they were mistaken for Dragonkin by Ishgardian forces, while the Hrothgar were feared and ostracized as beastmen until they gained a measure of mastery of the Eorzean common tongue to make themselves understood.

Meanwhile in the Far East, the connotations of "Beast Tribes" is something we Eorzeans carried with us East, the Kojin, Lupin and Namazu are not branded so and in fact, the latter two blends in quite seamlessly with the local Spoken, while the former prefers isolation on the sea floor but maintains cordial relations. Viera lastly, though tribal. Are much too isolated outside of their native lands to receive the Beastman Brand, and are perceived more as curiousities than an actual people.

It's important to remember that despite the species' player population, Viera don't actually leave their forest homes in droves, in fact you'd be lucky to spot even one in a lifetime.