About damage essences in Delubrum/Dalriada

[Banriikku]

I'm not trying to justify anything. I don't need to; the game already lets me queue without any essences, so my position is inherently justified. If you all want me to use an essence when I queue for DF you'll have to give me a reason... That's all I'm saying. Will my using an essence turn a 50 minute run into an 18 minute run? No.

I'm making a practical argument; not a moral one. I don't care about "what if everyone thought like you?" I can't control how other people think so why would I base any decision I make on that? It's pointless.


It's just less efficient for me to. I don't need to farm essences to benefit from collective gains so, practically speaking, why should I?

Let's be honest : you dont need to right but i will leave if the first boss takes too much time. You have the right not use any tools given by SE and i use my right to just not carry people that are lazy.

So we are clear here : You dont want to put in effort but expect others.

[Kaurhz]

I'm not trying to justify anything. I don't need to; the game already lets me queue without any essences, so my position is inherently justified. If you all want me to use an essence when I queue for DF you'll have to give me a reason... That's all I'm saying. Will my using an essence turn a 50 minute run into an 18 minute run? No.

I'm making a practical argument; not a moral one. I don't care about "what if everyone thought like you?" I can't control how other people think so why would I base any decision I make on that? It's pointless.

Yes, you've been trying for several pages to justify it. It doesn't turn your 50 minutes run into an 18-minute run simply on the basis of the take you have. I'm typically against this, but with takes like these, especially when you're in a group activity is what makes me wish these things had an enrage of sorts.

No, your argument is not practical, it's an argument where you seemingly elect to decide whether you consider yourself as part of a collective or not when it best suits your argument or your misapprehended efficiency. In honesty, at this point I have less regard or distaste in your essence use or lack thereof, and more just how you're trying to chalk it up to be more efficient despite the fact you can in reality use an essence and join a premade farm for significantly faster runs.

Let's narrow down the summary

You have no essences, join a group on duty finder, experience an average of 45 minute runs, even being lenient here. This guy has spent a cumulative time of 765 minutes getting all relics.
vs
You have someone who spent 2 hours farming 100 pure essences, they join a group of like-minded individuals, and they encounter 18-minute runs. They've spent a cumulative time farming for 486 minutes to get all relics, including the time spent farming the fragments.

Call it cumulative argument all you like; I wonder who has the better end result for time spent. This is my problem with you trying to chalk your argument to caring about efficiency on any level

[lezard21]

Right now he is very efficiently grinding for relics by arguing about the most efficient way to grind relics for 20 pages.

[Fland]

It's just less efficient for me to. I don't need to farm essences to benefit from collective gains so, practically speaking, why should I?

Practically speaking, by using essence you are increasing that collective benefit which overall would more than make up for the time you spent farming, thus more efficient.

[Goji1639]

So we are clear here : You dont want to put in effort but expect others.

I don't expect others to do anything. If I end up in a 50 minute DR because no one else essences either that's just luck of the draw. If you burn through essences in a DF DR that's your decision, not something I asked you to do.

Call it cumulative argument all you like; I wonder who has the better end result for time spent. This is my problem with you trying to chalk your argument to caring about efficiency on any level

I play at weird hours, which made PF groups difficult to come by. My plan was to run the DR phase of my relic in DF, and spending time farming for that would've been a waste.

Dunno, you'd still gain the benefit from collective gains if you just spam your 1-2-3 combo over and over instead of doing a proper rotation, or even better, target boss and autoattack. Why don't you do it?

Because I don't have to spend extra time farming outside of the instance in order to do my rotation.

Right now he is very efficiently grinding for relics by arguing about the most efficient way to grind relics for 20 pages.

I'm actually done with my relic. Right now I'm just having a lovely conversation with all of you wonderful people while doing other work.

[Kaurhz]

I don't expect others to do anything. If I end up in a 50 minute DR because no one else essences either that's just luck of the draw. If you burn through essences in a DF DR that's your decision, not something I asked you to do.


I play at weird hours, which makes PF groups difficult to come by. My plan was to run the DR phase of my relic in DF, and spending time farming for that would've been a waste.

Efficiency dictates your best course of action would be to play at better hours. I don't have much of a moral issue with the whole thing now, nor have I ever. I've just found it very discomforting people do this, even though doing a little can potentially save up to 300~ minutes of time.

[Raven2014]

Hell, even the community at large doesn't care; I've never been chewed out once for not popping an essence in DR, lol.

Because most people have this things called "etiquette". I won't say it never happened, but I've never once see anyone get called out either the way the OP described, and I ran my fair share of DR. After all, I ran enough to finish 8 relics, and 6 of them before the recent buffs. At most, you see some general "rant" in chat about the slow run and the lack of essence, but I have "never" seen anyone specifically chewed out for it. But please don't take the lack of direct criticism as a way of consent. If you think each time I see a lvl25 in my party with no essence and don't care about it, you're wrong and I choose to deal with it in my own way as described in previous post.

About caring? Well, I don't know how much you care but you certainly care enough to shamelessly boast about it right now isn't it? Since I'm also posting I won't say I don't care either. But who care more and who care less, who know, may the same amount so there is no need to pretend, yes?

Instead of throwing yourself to the floor for others at every opportunity, learn to distinguish between important and unimportant forms of self-sacrifice. You'll be better off for it.

And here is the major misconception my dude: Why do you think this is some soft of self-sacrifice? What, do you think it's a self-less act for me to come to every DR run fully load with an essence + 2 actions? No, I do it out of the utmost sense of selfishness. I do it because -first and for most- it benefits me. If I end up in a good party, it will be a multiplicator for me to reap even greater reward, and if I happen to run into people like you, it will help mitigate the issue so I won't be affected too badly. I said above if I see the run is slow I will bail, if I'm truly driven by a sense of self-sacrifice, I would stay and try the carry don't you think?

This has always been about me, and no one else, the collective benefit that I brought to the group by being prepared is nothing but a side effect bonus. Trust me, if you're a selfish brick, then I am equally selfish if not even more. The difference between you and me is our math, mine is the kind that make the rich gets richer, while yours is why the poor keeps getting poorer.

And sure, I believe you're an adult, most of us are I wager. After all you just have to stay alive for a certain amount of years to call ourselves one, but not all Adults would have the same amount of self-respect. I don't know where your common sense or standard lie, but "when I can inconvenience others" is not where my line is. I prefer to avoid inconvenience others as much as I can help it. Just because I can inconvenience other without consequence, doesn't mean I want to.

[MilkieTea]

It's just less efficient for me to. I don't need to farm essences to benefit from collective gains so, practically speaking, why should I?

Thanks for finally admitting that you just want to leach off of other peoples work without putting in the effort to contribute anything meaningful yourself.

Though, had you said you wanted to leech from the beginning, instead of straw-manning and pulling numbers out of Thin Air (what an AMAZING white mage you make!) people wouldn’t be giving you the time of day and I’m quite sure that wouldn’t be what you want. Because if you really were arguing that it’s a waste of time, the hours spent on these forums could’ve been spent farming frags to get essences. It’s not a waste of time - you just want to leech. Cool!

[AikenDrum]

And I believe once this become a popular trend, it will be a much more impactful effect than we're trying to preach anyway. In a group overpopulated with leech, once a few heavy hitter left they gonna feel it. They say they don't mind 50min+ minutes, let's them enjoy their 80-90min run once the essences people had left I say.

I even had a run when after some heavy hitters left the rest of raid couldn't pass the guardians dps check and simply disbanded. I didn't wanna leave after i popped pure when i only had like 5 of them, but now when i have >30.. yeah

[lezard21]

Going by this guy's 4d math, if Skirmisher at 20% buff takes off 1 minute off the raid, then Pure Essence of the Duelist that gives 60% damage increase would take 3 minutes off the raid, and it takes 1 minute to farm them.

So keep finding new excuses to be a freeloader.

Also I will reiterate, stuff like Rend Armor alone can take off 10 minutes off a raid with poor essences and action usage if 1 person uses it, and takes 1 minute to farm.

I even had a run when after some heavy hitters left the rest of raid couldn't pass the guardians dps check and simply disbanded. I didn't wanna leave after i popped pure when i only had like 5 of them, but now when i have >30.. yeah

Best way to gauge wether to stay or to leave from a DR is:

a) see if someone uses Rend Armor on first boss and
b) see how much HP the boss loses for the duration of that first Rend Armor

If either a) does not happen or b) is less than 15%, you are better off leaving.