Yoshida on "carrying" other people

[Imora]

I had a player in Castrum Lacus Litore last night who hadn't done a single class quest past 30 and was exclusively spamming Rage of Halone, all the while dealing less damage than the NPCs that accompany the raid.

Until they decide to create content in the leveling experience that actually holds players to a higher standard, tuning content to where dead weight cannot be carried would only make it infinitely more frustrating unfortunately. I'd honestly rather my Nier Raid be a 30 minute snooze fest than a 3 hour wipefest for irrelevant garbage loot.

What in the world??

[Goji1639]

Now that particular part makes no sense. Consider how much longer DR takes when only half of the raid uses their essences. Now what, exactly, would be the difference between 50% (2 of 4) and 50% (say, 12 of 24) doing so? Scaling off of fewer people just makes the chance per person more pronounced. It's otherwise irrelevant.

Scaling off of fewer people means 1 person makes a much bigger difference. If you show up with a top 5% effort it's like queuing for DR with an elite 6 player premade; even if the rest of the raid doesn't essence at all you'll still have a decent run because you alone can actually to some extent carry a group. Whereas if you show up to a 24 man DR with top 5% effort you won't make nearly as much of a difference.

Now if everyone in a 4man group shows up with nothing then none of them will have any room to complain about how long it takes.

[Puremallace]

New gear to increase power is worthless without effort to make use of that gear.

FF14 without a doubt proves that gear does not need to be the only carrot you chase at end game. I wish other MMO devs would understand this.

[DPZ2]

The point being those players are deadweight no matter their ilvl.

Sure. Got it. You must be one of THOSE players. Have a nice time in Party Finder.

[Vahlnir]

I had a player in Castrum Lacus Litore last night who hadn't done a single class quest past 30 and was exclusively spamming Rage of Halone, all the while dealing less damage than the NPCs that accompany the raid.

If this did indeed happen...good lord. That's a surprising but also unsurprising new low.

[Fourbestintoner]

Keep carrying the wasted slots or Yoshi WILL nerf the content you love, or what is left of it.

[Shurrikhan]

I had a player in Castrum Lacus Litore last night who hadn't done a single class quest past 30 and was exclusively spamming Rage of Halone, all the while dealing less damage than the NPCs that accompany the raid.

Until they decide to create content in the leveling experience that actually holds players to a higher standard, tuning content to where dead weight cannot be carried would only make it infinitely more frustrating unfortunately. I'd honestly rather my Nier Raid be a 30 minute snooze fest than a 3 hour wipefest for irrelevant garbage loot.

Is it really worth holding any and all content that'd be worth a damn, intrinsically, hostage to long-overdue checks for basic player readiness?

I see, for instance, no problem with requiring that one have all their job quests complete or their job's (not counting BLU) skills learned before doing that expansion's level-cap content (all 1-70 skill learned to do Stormblood endgame, 1-80 for Shadowbringers, etc.).

Nor do I see any problem with requiring at least a short, better-tuned SSS-equivalent (keeping in mind that some of them are weirdly stringent at present) -- or, ideally, a far more contextualized proving ground for the latest expansion's serious content (if not already completed during a previous then-latest expansion).

[Katie_Kitty]

I agree that DF alliance raids should just be easy. Throwing 24 random people together and making it "punishing" in ANY way is just going to be dumb and frustrating. That should be the relaxing, idgaf content where as long as people are moving in the correct direction and pressing a few buttons everything's gonna work out fine.

That's how we end up with boring nier raids instead of really great fun alliance raids like orbonne monastery. Just because they're casual content doesn't mean you cant put in interesting mechanics that punish the group for failing.

[Katie_Kitty]

Keep carrying the wasted slots or Yoshi WILL nerf the content you love, or what is left of it.

Yoshi will nerf the content even if we do carry the bads. See: Their butchering of orbonne monastery.

I'm still mad.

[Shurrikhan]

That's how we end up with boring nier raids instead of really great fun alliance raids like orbonne monastery. Just because they're casual content doesn't mean you cant put in interesting mechanics that punish the group for failing.

^

Similarly, though, nor does failing mechanic have to immediately equate to death, as per knock-offs or 999,999 damage nukes to be walled off, for the mechanic itself to be engaging. Actionable challenge and broadly defined "difficulty" are not the same thing. Something can be immensely punishing, yet dully shallow, or deep, complex, and engaging yet not particular "difficult" due simply to how well the mechanics were situated.