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  1. #111
    Player
    Cherub's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    Floating City of Nym
    Posts
    392
    Character
    Miasma Eschaton
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 90
    I just really wish they would have fullfilled their idea of "pure healer" when they announced it, for Shadowbringers was it? Instead the "pure healer" or "more traditional healer" or whatever it was, went into the completely opposite direction.

    I was never the biggest fan of DPSing as a healer too much. I don't mind DPSing a little but if I am to do DPS 95% of the fight in high end fights, then the design of the healer in its core is utterly flawed as mentioned by OP. I dislike the idea of them giving us back DPS tools and making that more exciting because healing would still be bad. It doesn't fix the healer role. It just makes the wrong thing within it a little bit more bearable, instead of spamming 2 buttons, I alternate 4 buttons wooooo. And before anyone rolls their eyes and says "Do you want to do nothing and just cure spam?".
    No but if you think that a more interesting DPS rotation for healer is what will fix healers, you're not really wanting to play a healer. You want to play a really easy to play DPS.

    Healers need fixing from two sides, the encounter design and the jobs themselves need fixing.
    The fight design needs to change, damage is way too low, way too slow, way too predictable. It just needs to be higher and WAY more frequent and come in many different forms. It also needs an element of randomness, not during highly coordination heavy mechanics but during downtime and mechanics that are easier and faster to execute. Tank damage should encourage healing more, I can tell you exactly how often I've healed a Tank in the current savage tier, including progression, just because of pure single target tank damage - twice. I use an Excog once at the start of E12S because it's essentially free until I need it again, not because it's required, and the Dog tankbuster actually requiring some attention from at least 1 healer, though thats only once because for the rest they'll have invulns, so don't even bother. Slap a crit excog on that tank and forget single target healing for the rest of the fight.

    Healers themselves just need a lot more interactivity within their own healing toolkit. It's just press the button and forget it until it is back up. It also doesn't help that our main source of healing comes from CDs. Scholar hasn't gotten a single GCD heal since its release. CD's encourage weaving with DPS instant spells and the problem is, that it's the most optimal thing to do. Looking at E12S, I have used 4 Succors and 2 Adloqiums. I have spent about 14- seconds healing in a 9/10 minute fight. As a healer, I spent 14 seconds casting healing spells. Don't get me wrong, using stuff like Soil feels great, it makes a difference, it's strong, feels good, fits well with the SCH theme and it's nice if I get to use it. But the problem is that we have too many CDs, we spend so little time on healing and a lot of time on DPSing. Even as a WHM, my cohealer having 29 healing GCDs used and a whooping 153 DPS GCD spells in the same E12S run.
    Not to mention the toolkit itself having either no interaction with the rest of the kit or having really terrible interaction. The only ones that are somewhat acceptable are Spread Adlo and Plenary indulgence because they require somewhat immediate reaction, they encourage (or more like their whole idea is to) use a healing spell before/after. It enables you to heal. Having recently played WoW, I was surprised at how little time I found to DPS and my toolkit itself having a lot of things to look out for, it's not just set and forget. One actions powers up the next, one action enables the next, an interesting loop is created. It felt great to heal because I got to heal, it was necessary and it felt good because my healing spells were interesting. I also can't weave DPS spells in that game, I am forced to heal, as a healer. Forcing a healer to heal is what the game devs should do. Instead they enable us to DPS and it is not a little bit of DPS.

    And here is my next point. Healer DPS is way too high. I was only 1k behind my tanks in progression, on farm I did slightly more DPS than my tanks and these are 90%+ tanks. If my cohealer and I decided to not DPS at all, during a savage fight, we wouldn't be able to beat it. We would miss way too much DPS and the group won't be able to make up for that. The problem herein lies with the entire design philosophy. They said healers wont have to DPS to clear a fight. That is not true. As mentioned before, 26k-ish DPS is pretty hard to make up for in just a few seconds. This makes progging in fights like UWU UCOB or TEA absolute hell. The healing required is there until you realize how high it really is. Then you drop it. You adjust your CD's and then it's back to spamming DPS spells because ultimately, that is more important than healing. If YOU don't adjust your healing to be as little time consuming as possibe, you won't beat the fight. In fact, the healing part is a little fun even in prog in fights like TEA because you play it more safe, you get to use more of your healing spells, right, there is some diversity. The toolkit isn't great but it's better than 2 buttons doing the exact opposite of what you're meant to do. Until you internalize the damage and spend all your energy on DPSing again because if you don't, you won't beat the fight. It's ridiculous how rewarding it is to press 1 button. Really??? About as much damage as the tanks??? It's insane to me. The entire damage and healing part of FFXIV is a flawed mess. It's Chaos, a bad one, a frustrating one. Made even more frustrating by the fact that they've gone so long ignoring us, telling us to "try it out first" until the next "try it out first", not listening to player feedback in this very specific regard. Never really telling us that they're aware of the problems either. Just talk to us about this but they won't even do that. I'll keep playing Healer because I like keeping everyone going, I just wish the act of keeping everyone going was more than just ignoring 80% of my kit and mindlessly spamming 2 buttons. I remember telling my group that the hardest fight was E7S, the first two minutes. Because nothing happens and I have to spam Broil for 2 minutes straight, not falling asleep during that was the hardest mechanic in any fight. A more interesting DPS rotation woulda been cool, visually more interesting too maybeeee. But maybe, yknow, healing as a healer with an interactive toolkit would have been real fucking great during those 2 minutes. Alas.

    /rant over
    (5)

  2. #112
    Player
    Semirhage's Avatar
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    May 2015
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    1,704
    Character
    Nemene Damendar
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub View Post
    I was never the biggest fan of DPSing as a healer too much. I don't mind DPSing a little but if I am to do DPS 95% of the fight in high end fights, then the design of the healer in its core is utterly flawed as mentioned by OP. I dislike the idea of them giving us back DPS tools and making that more exciting because healing would still be bad. It doesn't fix the healer role. It just makes the wrong thing within it a little bit more bearable, instead of spamming 2 buttons
    Are these things really mutually exclusive? Is it not possible to increase healing frequency and make the damage rotations more interesting than smashing one button over and over again? I will never understand this "healers are supposed to heal and making them do more damage is wrong because that's not what they're supposed to do" mentality. I've played clerics in single- and multiplayer games for most of my life. You know how many of them I've spent anywhere close to 50% of my time spamming Cure in? Zero. Sure, there are really rough encounters that require precise heal timing and blowing all of your resources just to keep up with the outgoing damage and curses and poisons and whatever. That's fun to heal. But it's not something you do all the time. It's generally in high-end challenging stuff (like Ultimate probably should be). No, I've spent the majority of my time pre-buffing and then, horrors, dealing damage. Because I have only ever once encountered a healing class with damage output so pathetic that it wasn't worth wasting the time on the cast (we're talking two digits of damage in a game where DPS were doing tens of thousands). Maybe healers are pearl-clutching nervous pacifists in anime or something, because I've never seen it in Western gaming.

    And here is my next point. Healer DPS is way too high. I was only 1k behind my tanks in progression, on farm I did slightly more DPS than my tanks and these are 90%+ tanks.
    Why is this a bad thing? Damage is what you do as a healer when, ideally, you've done your priority job efficiently enough that you can start attacking. I miss being able to outdamage unskilled DPS in dungeons in Heavensward. I think having respectably high damage output as a reward for keeping your healing efficient is a GOOD thing. Who wants to finish healing and then turn to a five damage poot spell because there's nothing else to do?
    (10)

  3. #113
    Player
    Cherub's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    Floating City of Nym
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    392
    Character
    Miasma Eschaton
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Semirhage View Post
    Snip
    I never said that they are mutually exclusive. The ideal outcome is to have an interesting DPS toolkit and an interesting healing toolkit in tandem. Me saying I want to heal is purely that. Me wanting to heal. I dislike the idea of them giving us DPS tools back because I fear that they'd think they'll solve all healing issues with just that. A slightly more interesting DPS toolkit for healers while completely ignoring the healing side of it all, and lets be real, if they gave us back the old tools, it'd just be as frustrating and boring. At least something new and interactive would be nice for DPS. Furthermore your mentality isn't the same as my mentality but thats where the Job differences come in right? There should be healer jobs to accomodate both tastes. I do prefer a healer that spends most of its time healing and dots mainly and only finds a few seconds here and there every minute or so to do DPS while you enjoy the cleric type, healing and DPSing equally. Both should work and exist in an MMO. Its what I experienced in other MMOs, there wasn't much time to do DPS, in fact, the healing was rather tight in a few encounters even if the numbers done by me and my healer were more than acceptable in said scenario. To me thats fun.
    It's not a "Healers are supposed to heal and making them do more damage is wrong because thats not what they're supposed to do" mentality, it's a "Have healers be healers not braindead 2 button DPS" mentality. It's gone too far into one direction. And no one is happy with it. The healers who prefer healing more, the ones who like DPSing and Healing equally and the ones who like to DPS a lot. I think I can fairly say, everyone dislikes the current situation.

    It's bad because the number itself is too high for too little effort. If the healer outdamages a Tank, a Job that is constantly attacking the target with an actual rotation in its toolkit, by just spamming 2 buttons, something is going terribly wrong. Healer DPS needs to be rewarding, true. But if Tanks and Healers nowadays push 13k, one actually putting in effort, the other one turning their brain off and a DPS pushing around 21k+/- depending on Job... The numbers just seem wrong to me, they are too close to each other. Fights are not clearable without Healer DPS (Not saying they shouldn't DPS). Most groups go to their healers and tell them to DPS harder if they enrage. This became extremely frustrating in TEA, which I experienced as SCH, being constantly told to push DPS because the DPS were meeting just about what they were supposed to do but bad Job comp just kicking us in the ass. It wasn't frustrating because of the criticism but because of realizing how little healing was required and DPS being the opposite, being required so much. Furthermore, keeping healing efficient in this game comes in the form of not healing most of the time, it's too easy to achieve. As if there is any effort in that, you're rewarded more by pushing a single button rather than 3. But don't push those buttons with a cast timer! Those are bad unless you WHM! And why go the extreme and say five damage? Why can't Healer DPS be what it is in so many other games, a bonus. Something like -that bit that the healers did, got us past the enrage. That isn't to say the numbers should be atrociously low but finding the time to DPS should be harder for healers to do. Instead we're at the point of - if healers do not DPS efficiently around 90% of the time, you will most definitely meet enrage and it's impossible that anyone else makes up for it other than better gear over the weeks but you'll never be able to make up for it in its entirety, just a portion of their DPS. 20k-ish (in prog) Combined healer DPS is nothing to scoff at. As it stands, you can not make it, if the healers aren't DPSing hard enough. This isn't about healing efficiently anymore, this is about DPSing efficiently. There is a difference between finding the time to DPS to help the group and being required to DPS so well that if you don't, you wont clear the fight. Color me crazy but a healer being tested for their DPS rather their healing isn't exactly what I imagine as a healer. It just really further pushes the idea that healers need to spend -ALL- their time DPSing and doing everything to optimize their DPS, really just cementing the fight design as it is with high healer DPS being an absolute requirement rather than a reward. If the numbers were lower(Again, this doesnt mean doing 5 five damage points, DPS can be lowered by cutting the time where a healer gets to DPS), they'd be easier to accomodate for by the group, freeing up Healers from the duty of being absolutely required to meet the DPS check, contributing to it as a bonus rather than being required to beat it. It should be rewarding to find the time to DPS and optimize my healing. But the time to DPS is always and the time to heal is, well never. I do the opposite begrudgingly, I find the time where it's absolutely necessary to heal and I feel bad doing it, because it's not efficient, healing as a healer sucks cuz it's bad. As I mentioned before 14 seconds spent on purely healing, even less considering one Succor was done during a phase where the boss wasn't targetable. I am not trying to find the time to DPS, I am not being rewarded for my DPS. My DPS was a requirement from the beginning and the time to DPS is all the time and you're doing it wrong if you're not doing that, effectively holding your group back or just keeping you from clearing.
    By the time I finish healing, the next set of damage should enroll to keep me healing and so forth. At that point it's rewarding and I'm actually optimizing my healing as a healer to be able to DPS. I am not DPSing and begrudgingly use 3 GCD heals a fight cuz I ran out of CDs that I begrudgingly used because I clipped them and lost 0.5 seconds on my next GCD DPS spell.
    I'm also not sure why you miss outdamaging unskilled DPS when it's still completely possible to do so. Just spam art of war in Paglth'an, works for me. Usually top unless there is a semi competent DPS.

    I should mention that I apply what I say to high end stuff only. I really don't care about extremes or dungeons or whatever. I'm mainly applying this to Savages and Ultimates.
    (1)
    Last edited by Cherub; 05-11-2021 at 09:48 AM.

  4. #114
    Player
    Semirhage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
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    1,704
    Character
    Nemene Damendar
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub View Post
    I never said that they are mutually exclusive. The ideal outcome is to have an interesting DPS toolkit and an interesting healing toolkit in tandem.
    I dislike the idea of them giving us DPS tools back because I fear that they'd think they'll solve all healing issues with just that
    I see a disconnect between these two sentences. Now, I get why you think that's the likely outcome of adding an interesting damage rotation, but it also sounds like you don't actually want the damage kits to be interesting.

    it's a "Have healers be healers not braindead 2 button DPS"
    What's the problem with...making them not braindead 2 button DPS?

    It's bad because the number itself is too high for too little effort.
    So the solution is to decrease the output and make the reward for efficient healing less satisfying instead of increasing the effort to make it commensurate with the damage output? This is the perennial argument for healers that very easily applies to tanks. Tanks are supposed to deal with incoming damage, not attack things. That's not their job. It's in the name. Doing damage as a tank is so unsatisfying. Tanks should prefer mitigation management. If they don't then they should just play a DPS class. Having an actual damage rotation is antithetical to the role, so they should just be reduced to a one button spam and deal less damage while having more active mitigation tools.

    As if there is any effort in that, you're rewarded more by pushing a single button rather than 3.
    I agree. A single button "rotation" is a really stupid, unsatisfying reward for being skilled at your job. I hope they change that.

    thats where the Job differences come in right? There should be healer jobs to accomodate both tastes. I do prefer a healer that spends most of its time healing and dots mainly and only finds a few seconds here and there every minute or so to do DPS while you enjoy the cleric type, healing and DPSing equally. Both should work and exist in an MMO.
    By the time I finish healing, the next set of damage should enroll to keep me healing and so forth.
    So you don't want cleric-type healers to have time to deal damage. Because healers "should" be constantly healing.

    Why can't Healer DPS be what it is in so many other games, a bonus.
    Because in most games I've played it's not "a bonus". Healing is something you do when the party's lives are threatened. Every party member does what they can to mow down the monsters in front of them. Most of the time that's holy blasting, or summoning storms, or just plain whacking something with a stick. I don't want to be shackled to the GCD healing in this game for the exact reason you hate the current damage rotations: they're boring and spammy as hell. They have almost no interaction with anything. They're a collection of 2-5 spells that don't feed into anything, don't build to anything, and don't have any function outside "if casting this once didn't do the trick, just cast it again!". The difference between the healing and damage kits here is that the GCD healing kits have always been this boring, whereas at least the damage kits used to have -something- more going for them.

    I'm also not sure why you miss outdamaging unskilled DPS when it's still completely possible to do so. Just spam art of war in Paglth'an, works for me. Usually top unless there is a semi competent DPS.
    Excellent Heavensward Scholars used to outdamage the lower skilled Ninjas on single target bosses, which is pretty cool. I'm not a fan of the general MMO fanbase attitude that healers "should" be doing some tiny fraction of the amount of damage that a dedicated DPS class does just because **reasons**. If the amount of damage output isn't commensurate with the effort, then increase the effort. I'm 1000% opposed to the idea that the only thing wrong with the current godawful healer damage rotations is that they "output too much".
    (13)

  5. #115
    Player Anhra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    824
    Character
    Anhra Nefaris
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Healing would be alot more fun if the entire Healing Kit would be reworked from the ground up, so that Healers would have more room for utility and damaging abilities. Currently, Healers are built as follows (role skills not included):

    Scholar (fairy included): 8 raw healing abilities, 3 HoTs, 3 shields and 7 utility skills of which 4 can be used to affect other players/party members. The rest that remains is summon fairy and 5 damage dealing abilities.

    White Mage:10 raw healing abilities., 3 HoTs, 1 shield, 4 utility skills of which only 2 affect other players along with 5 damaging skills and whatever that joke called fluid aura is suppoest to be.

    Astro TV: 6 raw heals (+4 if you add the 200 potency heals from "stance abilities), 1* HoT, 0* shields, 17 utility skills of which 8 affect other players (cards included) and armed with 4 damaging abilities.

    Before anyone asks, i didn't count in every individual AST card because theyre mostly just copypastes. There is in total only 4 different effects on them. Also keep in mind that abilities such as Discard and Draw are also included in the AST utility count.

    *+3 HoTs and +1 Shield in Diurnal and +3 Shields and +1 HoT in Nocturnal.

    Hope those numbers help with the discussion about healers.
    (0)

  6. #116
    Player
    Aarchie's Avatar
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    Feb 2020
    Location
    Old Sharlayan
    Posts
    37
    Character
    Archie Heios
    World
    Sagittarius
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    The point is: Healers should be healing/buffing/shielding 60-80% of their time, and the rest in DPS. The way encounters and healing works right now is 90-95% in DPS and a minimum in healing.
    Does the DPS rotation need to be more interesting? Def. But the healing aspect of it should be even more engaging, and higher DPS should be a bonus and used in downtime "as a reward" for your good job and optimal gameplay (you are done with your healing duties, now you can DPS at will).

    For this to happen, encounters and healer design should be reworked. It practically impossible to do it for older encounters, but for 6.0 onwards, I don't see why not.
    (3)

  7. #117
    Player
    Cherub's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    Floating City of Nym
    Posts
    392
    Character
    Miasma Eschaton
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Semirhage View Post
    I see a disconnect between these two sentences. Now, I get why you think that's the likely outcome of adding an interesting damage rotation, but it also sounds like you don't actually want the damage kits to be interesting.
    No, I want an interesting damage kit. Like, I don't know what to add here. If that is how you read it, I don't blame you. But that is not what I want.

    What's the problem with...making them not braindead 2 button DPS?
    That's exactly what I said though? Healers to be healers and NOT be braindead 2 button DPS? Like I think the sentence is pretty clear. The Problem is them being a 2 button DPS.

    So you don't want cleric-type healers to have time to deal damage. Because healers "should" be constantly healing.
    No, being a Cleric should allow you to deal with those type of situations where you have the tools to make time to find more room for damage and your healer being complementary to the situation and your Job design. Again, Savage and Ultimates in mind. I'm not sure why you'd think these things are mutually exclusive. Healing via DPS, Preemptive healing/shielding. There can be many ways to make Jobs work and interesting. In both ways, healing and DPSing. An interesting dynamic in Job design would help this out. It's working in other games, why can't it here?

    Because in most games I've played it's not "a bonus". Healing is something you do when the party's lives are threatened. Every party member does what they can to mow down the monsters in front of them. Most of the time that's holy blasting, or summoning storms, or just plain whacking something with a stick. I don't want to be shackled to the GCD healing in this game for the exact reason you hate the current damage rotations: they're boring and spammy as hell. They have almost no interaction with anything. They're a collection of 2-5 spells that don't feed into anything, don't build to anything, and don't have any function outside "if casting this once didn't do the trick, just cast it again!". The difference between the healing and damage kits here is that the GCD healing kits have always been this boring, whereas at least the damage kits used to have -something- more going for them.
    And again, my point. They need to fix the healing toolkits as much as they need to fix the current budgered DPS toolkit which, yea I guess, I have to realize is a distant dream and not likely going to happen. It's true that it's more likely that the healing would stay the same and the DPS rotation would change slightly. GCD Healing has almost never been interesting, true. But you can't tell me any game you've played, has healing DPS required this high to clear a fight. Even your Cleric should have an equal time for healing and DPSing but as it stands, you'll DPS 95% of the time in Savage. Healing being an afterthought, healing feeling bad to do as a healer.

    I'm not a fan of the general MMO fanbase attitude that healers "should" be doing some tiny fraction of the amount of damage that a dedicated DPS class does just because **reasons**. If the amount of damage output isn't commensurate with the effort, then increase the effort. I'm 1000% opposed to the idea that the only thing wrong with the current godawful healer damage rotations is that they "output too much".
    It's like you only read a single sentence and ignore the rest and take little parts out of context. I specifically said that Healers have multiple fronts that need fixing, not that ONLY the output is too high and thats the root of all evil. It just adds to the current terrible design. I am opposed to the idea of leaving the healing as terrible as it is and just fix the DPS aspect of the job and the challenge in being a healer is that, as before, we need to just push DPS, there is no effort in Healing. And this is ultimately what I want, an effort in healing. With DPS being something that adds to the Job rather than define it. Again, call me crazy but I play healer because I want to heal, not because I want to play a braindead DPS. A slightly more interesting DPS toolkit won't be a fix to the effort required in healing, nor the encounter philosophy, nor the DPS aspect even because it will just get stale if there is no effort involved. Does that mean I don't want an ineteresting and more complex DPS toolkit? No. I want the best of both worlds.

    So the solution is to decrease the output and make the reward for efficient healing less satisfying instead of increasing the effort to make it commensurate with the damage output? This is the perennial argument for healers that very easily applies to tanks.
    But there is no efficient healing involved here. There is no effort here and I mentioned in my previous post that the output needs to be lowered by exactly what you said, increasing the effort in healing. There is no reward for the non existing efficient healing either, it's a requirement. If you don't do it, you do it wrong. You're being "rewarded" for nothing as it stands. Having a somewhat more interesting DPS toolkit will only do the same thing. There still isn't efficient healing involved because healing at its core is broken, as much as the encounter design is. At least you'll be rewarded for executing a more complex DPS rotation, sure, that is indeed somewhat better but the effort to heal still won't exist in this case. It won't be a reward, it will stay a requirement. It's a small portion of the job too, it will get stale eventually if you don't fix the counterpart which is, shockers, healing. And again, because apparently people love to read what they want - this does not mean I want to spam cure or keep spamming 2 DPS buttons.

    You can still outdamage unskilled DPS in dungeons or extremes, it's not very unlikely that I'll do better DPS than a DPS in pugs, again, with nearly no effort involved from my side. But I don't want to be able to keep up with Tanks and DPS in damage in savage and ultimates because those should test me on keeping the group alive, challenge me in that aspect while pushing me to add to the group with DPS. But it doesn't. There is no challenge in keeping the group alive. There is no challenge in DPSing. The only challenge is in how good you can actually DPS while healing minimally, even in Ultimate you spend majority of the time DPSing and I mean an overwhelming majority of the time.

    If I can make peace with the idea of you playing cleric, I don't get why so many people can't make peace with the idea of a healer that heals majority of the time. It shouldn't be either or. They both, and more, should exist here and both should be equally fun and engaging. But right now everyone is playing a pseudo healer who only learned 1 DPS spell and the healing tools are all instant and not engaging. But that 1 DPS spell is mads strong. Spam it or you won't clear the fight.
    (1)

  8. #118
    Player
    Irenia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    244
    Character
    Irenia Ataska
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 90
    The problem is that there is no way they're going to make easier content be that healing intense, and I want to be engaged at all difficulty levels. After all, the Golden Rule of Healing is that the better you are at healing the less time you spend healing, and lots of content is designed for bad players to be able to clear.

    As there will be content where a good player will not really be healing alot, the not-healing kit fun factor should be given priority, and it should not get worse to play the better you and your team are, which I fear will happen if priority nos given to the healing skills unfortunately.
    (2)

  9. #119
    Player
    NYCLouisGamer's Avatar
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    Apr 2021
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    Character
    Nyclouisgamer Alto
    World
    Golem
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 57
    This issue is unique to FFXIV. I have played many MMOs. I have never seen one where healers were able to consistently outdps DPS classes... until now.

    In this case, why bring DPS at all? Just bring multiple healers and you will have roughly equivalent damage with massive healing power. DPS is truly a role that is there for fun (rather than need) in FFXIV.

    In other games, encounters are designed with constant low-to-mid level damage being taken by the entire party. Healers have to spend the majority of their time frantically healing & deaths are common.

    In FFXIV, incoming damage is either low enough that a fairy or HoT can handle it or it is a one-hit kill from missing mechanics. If healers don't regularly DPS in an instance, they would be doing almost nothing.

    Given how encounters are designed in FFXIV... please give healers a cool DPS rotation or an actual healing rotation that builds up to something to incentivize more healing. Thanks!
    (0)

  10. #120
    Player
    Rilifane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,580
    Character
    Esther Harper
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by NYCLouisGamer View Post
    This issue is unique to FFXIV. I have played many MMOs. I have never seen one where healers were able to consistently outdps DPS classes... until now.

    In this case, why bring DPS at all? Just bring multiple healers and you will have roughly equivalent damage with massive healing power. DPS is truly a role that is there for fun (rather than need) in FFXIV.

    In other games, encounters are designed with constant low-to-mid level damage being taken by the entire party. Healers have to spend the majority of their time frantically healing & deaths are common.

    In FFXIV, incoming damage is either low enough that a fairy or HoT can handle it or it is a one-hit kill from missing mechanics. If healers don't regularly DPS in an instance, they would be doing almost nothing.

    Given how encounters are designed in FFXIV... please give healers a cool DPS rotation or an actual healing rotation that builds up to something to incentivize more healing. Thanks!
    On the contrary.
    DPS is is king in FFXIV which is why people rather skip a healer. Solo healing ex in favour of taking a 5th dps is common enough and so are 1 tank/ 3 dps runs among premades for daily roulettes. And if not for some arbitary "targets two healers" mechanics and the fact that fflogs ranks them as unusual comps that don't show up as default, savage would see more solo heal runs aswell. In lots of content, healers aren't something you take along because you want to but rather because you have to to fulfill the role requirement for a party if you're not a full premade.
    If a healer is out-dpsing a dps, the dps is doing something seriously wrong while the healer has likely highly optimised dps uptime. Quite unfair to compare that.
    But it's true that FFXIV has a uniquely low healing uptime while crazy high dps uptime for healers. Until I came across this game I was used to having a much higher heal uptime, tight resource management, no combat ress and being able to fall behind in healing if I didn't pay enough attention or miscalculated.
    Since the encounter design is unlikely to change and they will most likely keep the low healing requirement for accessibility, all they can really do at this point is make dps kits more interesting. Having an interesting healing kit is neeeded aswell but it won't alleviate the boredom of spending the majority of fights pushing one button.
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