Let's delete tier 1 "Cure" spells in 6.0 (by upgrading them to tier 2)

[Deceptus]

If we get a Medica III, then there would be no point in using Medica II unless it heals for an upfront 500 potency, and if that was the case, then Scholars are definitely goanna complain about their GCD AoE heals already the weakest become basically irrevelant in comparison. A massive single target heal on the GCD is definitely not needed. We already have Benediction and most of WHM toolkit is big heals in general - Afflatus Solace being 700 potency heal and Tetragrammaton being another 700 potency heal.

It's almost like potencies can be tweaked. . .

[Acece]

I mean do we really need more specialized heals at this point? Having a huge gcd heal nuke is nice but do we need it when we have solace, tetra, and benediction? Does whm need a better aoe heal when it has rapture, PI, and medica 2? Honestly adding more healing at this point will most likely be a waste when we have such effective heals, especially a gcd heal when we have such big opportunity cost vs other healers.
I like whm healing because its simple and reactive. as long as you can be reactive with it I think it fits it's niche as that sort of healer. Though that doesn't mean whm can't make up in complexity in other areas.

[Nethereal]

Am I missing something? As a healer you are given the prerogative to decide how you want to deal with situations pertaining to healing if a button is "bloat" like say for instance Fluid Aura, simply take it off your bar.

There's simply no need to remove niche skills because "bloat" when we have actually useless skills like Fluid Aura still in the game.

Edit: Also I see Endwalkers going into the EX route, where we get magic/abilities that augment our previous abilities. Similar concept to Recitation.

[Liam_Harper]

I don't mind Cure III personally. It's niche but it's a good niche, strong on-demand aoe GCD healing with a minimum range that needs to be accounted for. Less mindless than pressing Medica II because raidwide and going back to Glare. The issue is more that the amount of situations you need Cure III are very limited and usually just the last boss of a Savage tier during prog at low ilv. I'd like to see more mechanics that make me turn to Cure III because the damage is so crazy.

The main issue as I see it is Freecure. It's a trap and needs to be reworked. Medica is fairly useless, Cure II is rarely used and merging them with lily heals could work fine, but it's not the biggest priority right now, our bars are hardly bloated. We need more engaging buttons to press first, then we can look at pruning off the obsolete ones.

[Acece]

I don't mind Cure III personally. It's niche but it's a good niche, strong on-demand aoe GCD healing with a minimum range that needs to be accounted for. Less mindless than pressing Medica II because raidwide and going back to Glare. The issue is more that the amount of situations you need Cure III are very limited and usually just the last boss of a Savage tier during prog at low ilv. I'd like to see more mechanics that make me turn to Cure III because the damage is so crazy.

The main issue as I see it is Freecure. It's a trap and needs to be reworked. Medica is fairly useless, Cure II is rarely used and merging them with lily heals could work fine, but it's not the biggest priority right now, our bars are hardly bloated. We need more engaging buttons to press first, then we can look at pruning off the obsolete ones.

That's true, I was always under the impression that Square wanted whm to have relatively the same amount of buttons but I'm all for giving whm more buttons to press. My holy priest in WoW has more dps and healing buttons then my whm does in this game which is kind of funny because they have mostly the same role as the standard healer.
I really hope they give whm at least a little bit attention because whm has one of the most boring kits in the game. I'm 90% sure that whm is staying mostly the same going into endwalker which might be tragic.

Am I missing something? As a healer you are given the prerogative to decide how you want to deal with situations pertaining to healing if a button is "bloat" like say for instance Fluid Aura, simply take it off your bar.

There's simply no need to remove niche skills because "bloat" when we have actually useless skills like Fluid Aura still in the game.

Edit: Also I see Endwalkers going into the EX route, where we get magic/abilities that augment our previous abilities. Similar concept to Recitation.

I'm down for giving whm abilities that I would actually use, reworking fluid aura to be actually useful would be the first thing to do before combing some heals into each other. It's just the thread was talking about healing buttons and a I mostly just wanted to talk about them. Fluid aura is like the one true useless ability out of anything in the game lol.

[Nethereal]

I don't mind Cure III personally. It's niche but it's a good niche, strong on-demand aoe GCD healing with a minimum range that needs to be accounted for. Less mindless than pressing Medica II because raidwide and going back to Glare. The issue is more that the amount of situations you need Cure III are very limited and usually just the last boss of a Savage tier during prog at low ilv. I'd like to see more mechanics that make me turn to Cure III because the damage is so crazy.

The main issue as I see it is Freecure. It's a trap and needs to be reworked. Medica is fairly useless, Cure II is rarely used and merging them with lily heals could work fine, but it's not the biggest priority right now, our bars are hardly bloated. We need more engaging buttons to press first, then we can look at pruning off the obsolete ones.

I think the reasoning behind not actually having more encounters that require aoe potency levels of cure 3 Is the same reason they removed aoe esuna from SCH before they released TEA.
No single healer can have an ability/skill that makes them basically default meta/required for an encounter, same reason we can't have elemental weakness/strengths.
If SCH still had aoe esuna it would be in every single TEA clear and anything less would be griefing.
Applying that same logic if you have encounters with healer checks that actually require cure 3 level potency then you've entered ultimate level healer checks if not higher, not even jwaves requires cure 3s.


In order to create a situation where cure 3 is required but still keep the difficulty level at a manageable level you would need to add cooldowns to healing GCDs, not necessarily long ones but ones that force you to cycle through your healing GCDs(5-15). Having done that you can very easily make situations where medica, and medica 2 will be on cool down and you're forced/required to use cure 3. Just to throw stuff out there, Medica 2 = 10 seconds, Medica = 3 Seconds cure 3 = 6 seconds.

Adding a cooldown to healing GCDs would also largely return the usefulness of cure 1 equivalent skills as you can no longer spam cure 2 equivalents, granted everything would have to be adjusted..

[AnotherPerson]

It's almost like potencies can be tweaked. . .

Tweaking already existing skills that already do a good job to make room for more skills to cover the same purpose by weakening other ones is not good design. That's literally the definition of button bloat. Niche as Cure III is, it still has a unique purpose in the kit that other healers can't offer.

Besides, how are you supposed to tweak a Medica III into the WHM kit while making the skill have a particular use? Weakening Medica into a 200 potency AoE Heal is not something I can see happening since WHM is already horribly gimped under level 50 with MP management. A 400 Potency AoE Heal is a full HP Succor without the drawbacks of one (requiring E. Tactics for max value if shield doesn't break). A 300 Potency AoE heal is just a regular Medica. A 500 potency AoE heal pretty much replaces Medica II unless it has some absurd 3000 MP cost, in which case it would probably be more preferable to just stack together with a Cure III due to being half its MP cost but healing at the same amount.

In order to create a situation where cure 3 is required but still keep the difficulty level at a manageable level you would need to add cooldowns to healing GCDs, not necessarily long ones but ones that force you to cycle through your healing GCDs(5-15). Having done that you can very easily make situations where medica, and medica 2 will be on cool down and you're forced/required to use cure 3. Just to throw stuff out there, Medica 2 = 10 seconds, Medica = 3 Seconds cure 3 = 6 seconds.

This would make sense, except GCD Healing is supposed to be healing that you have on-demand, when everything goes wrong and you need to burn MP to stay alive. Having GCD heals have such a largely spaced CD between each means having periods where you can't heal - which wouldn't work unless we actually get oGCD heals and a full kit before level 50.

[Lyth]

I never understood why half of the "new" actions on healer jobs have historically been just "upgraded" versions of existing actions, just with more sparkles. Seeing this thread, I think that I understand.

6.0
Battle System
Actions and traits have been adjusted as follows:
Cure: Removed from game.
Cure II: Cure Potency reduced to 450. Additional Effect: 15% chance next Cure IV will cost no MP (Duration: 15s)

New Actions: (Exciting!)
Cure IV (Level 90): Restores target's HP. Cure Potency: 700

Calling it now. Your other two "upgrades" are going to be Angrier Glare and Marginally Bigger DoT.

[Saefinn]

I have them removed from my crossbars entirely. It's wasted space. I just end up putting them back on if I ended up getting a low level dungeon in a roulette, which is rare. Even with Physick, now that we can't control Embrace, it's less useful IMO, I used to macro Physick and Embrace together. Emergency Tactics is frequent enough that I can apply that to Adlo instead in those situations where I might use a GCD. Given how useful the rest of SCH's kit is (and similarly with WHM and AST), the Cure I/II spells and their equivalents they're not used that often as it at level cap.

There's a bunch of people who suggested that the stripping down of health this expansion means they can build and evolve on it. I'm just hoping those people are right with the upcoming Endwalker and we get more interesting stuff and less healing spell bloat.

[Bacon4Makin]

I don't think I agree with point 2, If a tank is taking enough damage for the pull to be considered that bad then you can just Adlo spam, cause you're only getting a 375 potency shield it's going to break first too