Shadowbringers Ninja Job: Complaints, Feedback, and Suggestions

[Equitable_Remedy]

its a shadowbringer skill. its called Bunshin.

It's not the same!

[Pyitoechito]

Snip

I see you put a lot of work into this, so I mainly want to critique on the basis of your tooltips and rotation:

• The burst phase is way too long. 20 seconds in one burst phase followed by another 20 seconds in an additional burst phase looks absolutely exhausting. Since this version of NIN is pretty much pure melee, there's going to be way too many instances where these burst windows are going to be cut into by boss mechanics that force disengage.
• The tooltips and traits are too complex. There is way too much bloat in these skill descriptions and way too many interactions.
• Feels like Samurai. While SAM doesn't have a super-distinct burst phase, it does have three branching combo paths each with a different effect: damage up (poison), speed up ("heavenly blades"), and Kenki (Ninki). Much of NIN's uniqueness comes from bring a mix of ranged and melee (like how Red Mage is a caster with a melee combo).

I agree that they should probably remove the bunny punisher in the next expansion, though (for latency reasons). The simple solution would be to just remove the ability to input any single mudra more than once in a ninjutsu window. One you use Ten, Chi or Jin, that skill icon grays out until the Ninjutsu window ends. I have more casual friends that already avoid Ninja just because the mudra memorizing seems daunting enough.

[Equitable_Remedy]

I see you put a lot of work into this, so I mainly want to critique on the basis of your tooltips and rotation:

• The burst phase is way too long. 20 seconds in one burst phase followed by another 20 seconds in an additional burst phase looks absolutely exhausting. Since this version of NIN is pretty much pure melee, there's going to be way too many instances where these burst windows are going to be cut into by boss mechanics that force disengage.
• The tooltips and traits are too complex. There is way too much bloat in these skill descriptions and way too many interactions.
• Feels like Samurai. While SAM doesn't have a super-distinct burst phase, it does have three branching combo paths each with a different effect: damage up (poison), speed up ("heavenly blades"), and Kenki (Ninki). Much of NIN's uniqueness comes from bring a mix of ranged and melee (like how Red Mage is a caster with a melee combo).

I agree that they should probably remove the bunny punisher in the next expansion, though (for latency reasons). The simple solution would be to just remove the ability to input any single mudra more than once in a ninjutsu window. One you use Ten, Chi or Jin, that skill icon grays out until the Ninjutsu window ends. I have more casual friends that already avoid Ninja just because the mudra memorizing seems daunting enough.

This guy gets it.

[wereotter]

I agree that they should probably remove the bunny punisher in the next expansion, though (for latency reasons). The simple solution would be to just remove the ability to input any single mudra more than once in a ninjutsu window. One you use Ten, Chi or Jin, that skill icon grays out until the Ninjutsu window ends. I have more casual friends that already avoid Ninja just because the mudra memorizing seems daunting enough.

Maybe it's because I started playing the game as a ninja.... but this never seemed like THAT big of a hurdle for me to memorize. The game introduces the mudras over time meaning you start with only fuma, then you get raiton and katon, and finally getting the third one unlocks hyoton, doton, huton, and suiton. Getting that third mudra was the biggest point of memorization, but you start with your two most commonly used mudras, so if you mess up a bit as you're leveling, it's fine.

The latency issue on the other hand... yes. Nothing more frustrating than getting a little lag bump in the middle of inputting commands to have it register you're on fuma and have no idea which mudra input the server registered. If they want to keep the ability to fail still a thing, even a little indicator in the job gauge that lights up which mudra you've used based on the color of the icon (similar to the samurai sen gauge) would be very helpful in that situation.

[Rilifane]

Mudras aren't difficult to memorise if you only memorise the last one.
Huton is Ten last, Doton is Chi last and Suiton is Jin last. The order in which the other ones are pressed doesn't matter, only the last one counts. Another thing that helps when having bound Ten, Chi and Jin in this order right next to each other (like most people do it): ST skills always move foward from Ten, buffs and aoe move backward from Jin.
3 Mudra skills set something up (Huton, Doton, Suiton for TA), 2 Mudra skills deal burst damage.
A little bit of practice and it comes naturally, it's not a huge thing. Seeing the pattern behind it makes it easier aswell.

Latency issues are frustrating but just like dropping dots, overwriting procs etc. I like that NIN has something with the possibility to fail it. It's unfortunate that latency can ruin it similiar to DNC redoing steps during lag spikes but although lag spikes have ruined several TAs for me, I would still be a bit sad to see the bunny go. And not just because I just love the little critter on my head.

[wereotter]

Mudras aren't difficult to memorise if you only memorise the last one.
Huton is Ten last, Doton is Chi last and Suiton is Jin last. The order in which the other ones are pressed doesn't matter, only the last one counts. Another thing that helps when having bound Ten, Chi and Jin in this order right next to each other (like most people do it): ST skills always move foward from Ten, buffs and aoe move backward from Jin.
3 Mudra skills set something up (Huton, Doton, Suiton for TA), 2 Mudra skills deal burst damage.
A little bit of practice and it comes naturally, it's not a huge thing. Seeing the pattern behind it makes it easier aswell.

Latency issues are frustrating but just like dropping dots, overwriting procs etc. I like that NIN has something with the possibility to fail it. It's unfortunate that latency can ruin it similiar to DNC redoing steps during lag spikes but although lag spikes have ruined several TAs for me, I would still be a bit sad to see the bunny go. And not just because I just love the little critter on my head.

The order on the hotbar only works for PC, though, since PlayStation users are on a cross hotbar... but for me I found early on it was easy to set the four buttons for mudras in the same cross portion. I had the single target skills on the upper and lower buttons (so Jin and Chi) and the mudra that expands outwards to AOE, Ten, being the one off to the right, and the execution of the mudra being off to the left. This only reads for the two-mudra moves to be more straight forward... but hey, anything helps.

[Equitable_Remedy]

The problem with mudras isn't memorization—it's ping/unregistered button press locking you out of mudras for several seconds. An example: on occasion, I'll hit the inputs for Raiton too quickly and only one will register—I'm left guessing which one that was because if I hit it again I lose the ninjutsu and get locked out.

Yes, I know the alpha chad elites might think that the failure mode highlights their l33t skills, but there's not really any difficulty here. More importantly, there's nothing particularly fun about the bunny option given that you'd never actually choose the option outside of memes—it's purely a punish for a mechanic that isn't powerful enough to warrant a punish.

[Seraphor]

I have to agree that it should probably disable Mudra's once used so you don't accidentally hit the same one twice due to latency issues, but then re-enable them after the next Mudra. The bunny would still then exist for legitimate fuck ups, like hitting Ten-Chi-Ten or something.

[Equitable_Remedy]

I have to agree that it should probably disable Mudra's once used so you don't accidentally hit the same one twice due to latency issues, but then re-enable them after the next Mudra. The bunny would still then exist for legitimate fuck ups, like hitting Ten-Chi-Ten or something.

I still don't think that the failure mode adds any fun to the game, but this is a very reasonable compromise for those who (apparently) do.

[Kolsykol]

I've never felt like Armor Crush was a problem to read it's strange for me to see people say that.

You don't even need to move as Ninja all you need to do if you want is to stand at the rear and attack and you can just use True North for Armor Crush lol.