Dizzines & Intense Nausea while playing Tower at Paradigm's Breach

[Ceridwenae]

Thank you so much for this, OP! I'm photosensitive epileptic, and always appreciate a heads-up.

1) Has anyone else experienced this after playing Tower?

I am actually thankful I've not gotten to this content yet. I usually wait a while to complete current endgame content - like, next expansion length of waiting. I have unlocked the first one available however.


2) Have you needed medical attention after playing Tower?

n/a


3) If you are diagnosed with epilepsy, what do you do to protect yourself from the particle effects in this game?

• I've turned off effects for others - someone can spam Holy in Limsa, and I wouldn't notice. Couldn't have done previous Alliance raids without this, but I just had them as a once and done - they're too intense for me even without other alliance graphics going off. That many moving players actually makes me woozy (!), and the raids tend to run too long for my comfort. I still keep my own party's graphics though.
  
• I have a pair of anti-glare glasses. (WHMs cannot hurt me!)
  
• I don't tank or heal with other people past a certain level - usually post-50/60 - unless a family member is with me; I only play ranged characters with others after a certain point because melee can get confusing with up-close graphics after a while (I tend to level those jobs with AI, so it's okay if I feel I have to quit). Ranged affords me the chance to step a little further away if I need it and it times right.
  
• I don't do endgame stuff that needs lots of practice, or things that might be stressful. I have anxiety too, so it's for the best. I'd love to be able to do things as they are, but I've accepted it's quite unlikely to ever happen. I just run old stuff un-synced either solo or with the family. I'm incredibly patient.
  
• I stop doing anything clever by 11 at night.
  
• Good sleep is important.
  
• Take regular tea breaks away from the computer.
  
• I also don't run raid or trial roulettes because some included duties may cause me a bit of bother, although they've never triggered a seizure, I've always felt it's best to be careful, and at least I'm not getting in anyone's way.

4) If you are diagnosed with epilepsy, are you going to play any of the Nier raids or risk Tower at Paradigm's Breach?

Not now, no! I mean I don't know anything about Nier and don't really care, would've rathered a proper FFXIV related raid series riffing off a different FF again, but some of the glamour items were nice, so I might check the first two out and live through other players for the conclusion rather than do it myself. Nothing I'm not used to, and why I'm long past caring about being "spoiled". I had, however, seen screencaps of the raid, and did wonder if it would end up being problematic.

Again, thanks for posting about this. I really, really appreciate it. We photosensitives are generally what you could consider a niche group, so it's easy to overlook us. <3

[Jennah]

Can't speak for epilepsy.
For motion-sickness, what you want to do is focus your eyes as much as you can on a fixed point. You'll do it naturally if you're playing melee, or a class that has to watch for procs all the time like DNC.
Or move the camera out as far as possible.
Basically, get as far away as you can from it looking like a first-person shooter.

[Chie_M]

Can't speak for epilepsy.
For motion-sickness, what you want to do is focus your eyes as much as you can on a fixed point. You'll do it naturally if you're playing melee, or a class that has to watch for procs all the time like DNC.
Or move the camera out as far as possible.
Basically, get as far away as you can from it looking like a first-person shooter.

Even when I zoom all the way in and stare directly at the ground, I get sick on that fight.

But I am a photosensitive epileptic, so maybe it's something in the colour scheme.

[Rinion]

Sounds kinda like my dad who gets motion sick. He's said that it helps to stop and focus on a single object irl (obviously that can lead to death in game but between that and a killer headache/nausea, I'd assume it's better ).

Out of curiosity, is it just the Red Girl fight and the elevator?

[Rise-chu]

Sounds like motion sickness and migraines are a common response to this raid. That's really distressing but at least this thread is doing some good in gathering testimonies and alerting players to the potential danger.

Thank you so much for this, OP! I'm photosensitive epileptic, and always appreciate a heads-up.

Of course, no problem. The original incident left me really concerned because I'm not a diagnosed epileptic so it really unnerves me when something like this happens. (The last time I had a reaction like this to a videogame, I was playing Halo 3 at launch with my high school boyfriend. Yeah, I'm old.) I can't imagine how someone with photosensitivity would feel if they walked into the raid without knowing anything about it.

I'm going to cross my fingers that there are no severe medical reactions to this raid. When it comes to gaming I suppose that there's always some inherent danger when it comes to intense lighting effects. Unfortunately I don't know enough about battle design or epilepsy to suggest any solutions that Square Enix could implement. I'm a little troubled that this is a danger at all, honestly. I guess it's something that most people don't think about unless they have a reason to be concerned about photosensitivity.

Sounds kinda like my dad who gets motion sick. He's said that it helps to stop and focus on a single object irl (obviously that can lead to death in game but between that and a killer headache/nausea, I'd assume it's better ).

Out of curiosity, is it just the Red Girl fight and the elevator?

When I first started the raid everything was fine because it looked relatively normal. However thinking back I think I started feeling sick during the fight with the two robots where they take turns shielding themselves. At the time I just thought I'd been playing too long so I was getting visual fatigue but thinking back to all the flashing lights in that fight, maybe it was something deeper.

[SomeRandomHuman]

May I recommend giving this a try:

If possible hook your laptop/pc up to a tv where you can sit a little farther away from the screen. This has helped me personally with motion effects like the elevator. Then as mentioned prior, the tinted gunner glasses or the identically functioning feature may help with the flashing colors.

Yoshi P and his team are generally pretty good about things like this but Yoko Taro did take the lead for the Nier Raids. I'm sure if this gets forwarded that they'll try to tone back some of the problematic effects.

[Ceridwenae]

. At the time I just thought I'd been playing too long so I was getting visual fatigue but thinking back to all the flashing lights in that fight, maybe it was something deeper.

If at any point you think you are affected by flashing lights, you really owe it to yourself to bring it up with your doctor as soon as it's convenient. Games are often one of the first places issues are noticed, and because our triggers are different (to do with varying frequencies of light), it may have hitherto gone unnoticed because you haven't experienced those frequencies in that particular set-up. It could be you just need a slightly different set-up, like has been mentioned. Although, worst case scenario, if you or anyone else discovers you have PSE, moving your screen isn't going to help especially. During my seizures, I have been found moving from one side of a room to another, ending with my face literally pressed up against the monitor or tv and just being generally unnerving, before the predictable falling down and seizing. Have been injured lots by this. Even when feeling the oncoming seizure, closing my eyes would not help (far too late). Some people cover one eye, however, and find that works. It never has for me, however, so I can't personally vouch for it. I do know I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. All of that said, the old standard was to keep at least six feet away from the light source, but that was for older style monitors and TVs. Those were incredibly evil.

Again, many thanks. Without wanting to put too fine a point on it or appear simpering, you may well have saved my life and that of others by posting this today, or at least saved me from experiencing something I never ever want to go through again. And if the content is affecting people that don't usually run into issues, then that's concerning. This should definitely be forwarded onto the devs; I don't think they want players having unnecessary health issues playing their game if they can help it. Other than that, it's good to keep this thread going with tips and suggestions.

Honestly, despite everything I've said, this game is probably the best one I've played when considering epilepsy, so if I end up missing out some stuff, it's not the end of the world for me.

Please look after yourselves, everyone. <3

[DamianFatale]

If at any point you think you are affected by flashing lights, you really owe it to yourself to bring it up with your doctor as soon as it's convenient. Games are often one of the first places issues are noticed, and because our triggers are different (to do with varying frequencies of light), it may have hitherto gone unnoticed because you haven't experienced those frequencies in that particular set-up. It could be you just need a slightly different set-up, like has been mentioned. Although, worst case scenario, if you or anyone else discovers you have PSE, moving your screen isn't going to help especially. During my seizures, I have been found moving from one side of a room to another, ending with my face literally pressed up against the monitor or tv and just being generally unnerving, before the predictable falling down and seizing. Have been injured lots by this. Even when feeling the oncoming seizure, closing my eyes would not help (far too late). Some people cover one eye, however, and find that works. It never has for me, however, so I can't personally vouch for it. I do know I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. All of that said, the old standard was to keep at least six feet away from the light source, but that was for older style monitors and TVs. Those were incredibly evil.

Again, many thanks. Without wanting to put too fine a point on it or appear simpering, you may well have saved my life and that of others by posting this today, or at least saved me from experiencing something I never ever want to go through again. And if the content is affecting people that don't usually run into issues, then that's concerning. This should definitely be forwarded onto the devs; I don't think they want players having unnecessary health issues playing their game if they can help it. Other than that, it's good to keep this thread going with tips and suggestions.

Honestly, despite everything I've said, this game is probably the best one I've played when considering epilepsy, so if I end up missing out some stuff, it's not the end of the world for me.

Please look after yourselves, everyone. <3

Agreed one hundred percent about doctors. I wasn't sure what was wrong with me, but my eye doctor warned me that my vision was likely causing me migraines. People with Astigmatisms in one or more eyes can get them from over working your eyes.

[Shibi]

Agreed one hundred percent about doctors. I wasn't sure what was wrong with me, but my eye doctor warned me that my vision was likely causing me migraines. People with Astigmatisms in one or more eyes can get them from over working your eyes.

Oh yes, I get migraines when my eyes are tired, astigmatism the cause. I've not experienced this fight yet, but things like lots of lines on a low contrast background like grey always get me.

[AngelCheese77]

I have not reached this part of the game yet, but the warning is greatly appreciated.