I think I want subjobs more than I want job balance.

[Absurdity]

One issue with your examples there, Defiance seems rather useless.

The only reason the original warrior tank stance was actually useful were the +25% max hp in combination with the +20% received healing...and the fact that it was not on the GCD, because why would I ever choose more overall hp over immediately effective damage mitigation?

This was also one of the reasons why Defiance was an oGCD whereas the other tank stances were not, it did not provide an immediate benefit upon activation. All it did was increase your max hp, it didn't heal you and it did not reduce damage, so until you were healed up to your new 125% hp you essentially just nerfed your damage for no actual benefit.

[Xatsh]

The subjob system from FFXI was very very good and 100% should be used in some form in future mmos going forward. And for those saying everyone played the same subs. Yes they did in leveling/merit parties. But in endgame subjob was completely situational and all top tier guilds would expect members and new recruits to have multiple subjobs leveled before getting invited. What people went changed depending on the world boss, dungeon, instance and many times what your role was in that specific situation (and I do not mean role as in just dps, healer, tank).

With that said it would not work in FFXIV. It worked in FFXI and it works in games like Archeage. Because those game make a boss and say go at it, figure it out yourself. There is no focus on "Balancing it", no scripted fights, no specific requirement to enter an instance, no specific time limit to kill a boss (Some soft enrages but like 1-2hrs). FFXIV is all about precision mechanics, perfect balancing, extreme scripted fights, and hard DPS checks. FFXI was focused on depth and complexity. FFXIV is focused on extreme ease of use and simplicity. FFXI was easily on the "Hard Core" mmo side of the spectrum. FFXIV is probably the most casual AAA mmo on the market bar none. The games design philosophies are just polar opposites of the spectrum.

Most things in FFXI will not work in FFXIV because of the above. The game designs are counter to each other. The only thing the 2 game share in common are character models and the name Final Fantasy. So while I 100% loved the subjob system no it should not be in ffxiv because it does not fit.

[Komarimono]

@Jkap_Goat
You posted all of that, and think it's new content, when again, was discovered years ago by others. Again, it's old outdated tiny content. There's nothing new for anyone who have already experienced it. And the resurgence story I won't comment on due to spoilers. But it's just a monthly update, not an expansion, not large, and quickly gone through. You claiming there's new things in the game, is like me claiming Doom has new things for me to explore from 90's.

It's fine you enjoy it. But for those of us who have played it, it's nothing new, nothing exciting, nothing great anymore. My comment stands, it's slow and outpaced by FFXIV in all regards. FFXIV has far too many story lines, unique sub quests, gear options and looks, mount quests, crafting and gathering options and features, bounties, hunts, maps etc etc etc and different ways to complete them.

We don't need sub jobs. They were removed for a reason.

[Jkap_Goat]

@Komarimono

Great opinion, again as someone said, they are both different games, for me, xiv is just too easy, too much hand holding, not enough flexibility with jobs, heavily script boring fights, hallway linear dungons and too much nerfing especially 24 raids ( void ark is boring as a healer, you can do the whole raid without healing)

XIV is a theme park MMO for a reason, leave and come back when theres new content.

XIV couldn't have subjobs because all jobs are heavily homogenized anyways. Hopefully SE new mmo in the future isnt anything like xiv at all

FFXI feels like a proper Final Fantasy game, xiv has good storylines, everything else is downhill for me there

Im enjoying XI and loving Vanadiel and this adventure i haven't felt in xiv in years

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

@Komarimono

Great opinion, again as someone said, they are both different games, for me, xiv is just too easy, too much hand holding, not enough flexibility with jobs, heavily script boring fights, hallway linear dungons and too much nerfing especially 24 raids ( void ark is boring as a healer, you can do the whole raid without healing)

XIV is a theme park MMO for a reason, leave and come back when theres new content.

XIV couldn't have subjobs because all jobs are heavily homogenized anyways. Hopefully SE new mmo in the future isnt anything like xiv at all

FFXI feels like a proper Final Fantasy game, xiv has good storylines, everything else is downhill for me there

Im enjoying XI and loving Vanadiel and this adventure i haven't felt in xiv in years

Can't you throw that on XI too though? Just in a different way.

XI is too cookie cutter, you just find an enemies elemental weakness and spam that spell. Very boring.

If melee, you just sit there and auto attack for hours until you can use a skill. Yay, engaging...

[Jkap_Goat]

Can't you throw that on XI too though? Just in a different way.

XI is too cookie cutter, you just find an enemies elemental weakness and spam that spell. Very boring.

If melee, you just sit there and auto attack for hours until you can use a skill. Yay, engaging...

FFXI isnt perfect either, i don't know what melee your playing im FFXI but as a DNC, im using my Florishes with Steps and debuffing monsters, Haste Samba to keep attack speed up. Also you dont attack for hours, have you seen endgame fights?

As i said before FFXI is more strategy and FFXIV is more mashing buttons in a rotation with heavily script fights and lots of homogenized jobs

I can say i dont enjoy FFXI crafting and FFXIV has the upper hand on that, thats it.

[Dzian]

Can't you throw that on XI too though? Just in a different way.

XI is too cookie cutter, you just find an enemies elemental weakness and spam that spell. Very boring.

If melee, you just sit there and auto attack for hours until you can use a skill. Yay, engaging...

While the XI system is definitely on the slow side. I actually prefer the idea of auto attacks building up TP to unleash skills. Or even combos like the 1.2 battle system had.

Yes you press less buttons but they feel more impactful and weighty... So much more satisfying than the way XIV works where its basically just mash buttons for what feels like a glorified auto attack..

In XI you could quite often obliterate a "Decent Challenge" mob with a single weapon skill if you stocked up your TP it felt powerful,

In XIV. It takes half or even a dozen skills to drop whats referred to as a "trash" mob... That's how weak your skills feel when it takes so many to kill a piece of "trash"..

Still wish they'd kept the 1.23 battle system. Maybe upped the pace a touch but it was so much more engaging than the current one. Especially with things like the incapacitation system.

[Brightamethyst]

Hopefully SE new mmo in the future isnt anything like xiv at all

"They don't make 'em like they used to!" Yeah, there's a good reason for that (see also, 1.0.) FFXI was an absolutely fantastic game for it's time, but that time was 18 years ago. Games and players have both moved on since then.

[RyoXander]

Unfortunately this game is too linear and balanced to really make use of a proper sub-job system, which is why it was removed. There is very little to no customization or variety in this game. Everyone has the same gear on, all jobs are every bit as effective as the next, etc. The only customization option you have is materia melding and even then everyone just uses the same ones lol. In fact this even follows through in the battle system where there is very little "skill" involved. As long as you've memorized the enemies rotation, you're golden.

That's the reason glam is the true endgame xD.

[Komarimono]

FFXI isnt perfect either, i don't know what melee your playing im FFXI but as a DNC, im using my Florishes with Steps and debuffing monsters, Haste Samba to keep attack speed up. Also you dont attack for hours, have you seen endgame fights?

As i said before FFXI is more strategy and FFXIV is more mashing buttons in a rotation with heavily script fights and lots of homogenized jobs

I can say i dont enjoy FFXI crafting and FFXIV has the upper hand on that, thats it.

Every fight in FFXI is scripted though, heavily. You have timers for every skill any boss will use, timers for each mobs spawning. Why you knew how many stuns to bring, what skills to use when etc. And you had plenty of time to do it as well, since the fights were extremely slow. FFXI is just knowing the scripted fight, just like FFXIV. The difference is, FFXI you wait to use that skill on a timer, FFXIV relies on player skill to know when to build and keep their rotation while avoiding damage, swapping targets, interrupting and then rely on you knowing how to get back into proper position and rotation again after doing all that, for all types of jobs.