RP Party finders being reported AGAIN without so much as a reason.

[Awha]

I have no idea how this topic shift happened but has anyone brought up the insanity defense/diminished capacity yet? It's literally there for those who have mental health issues in court to say that they weren't sane/aware enough to know what they were doing. Idk why it's being ignored and if it was brought up already then apologies for missing it.

Link to info on it: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/insanity_defense

There's no guarantee you'll be granted it but that's life with the law. There's no guarantees unless you're famous/disgustingly rich.

To do a degree saying someone who is non neurotypical is insane opens up another ball of wax.

Neurotypical adults can also be manipulated and fall prey to deception. If a law is broken they have recourse as do non neurotypical adults. Children are treated different than adults for a good reason. Although, depending on the age, the severity of the law broken and mitigating circumstances they can be tried as an adult.

However, this is a game and this topic is essentially about ERP. ERP with children is not okay. Full stop.

Someone before brought up the legal context again which opened up the can of worms. Though generally when it comes to sexual related crimes between adult and minor often times the actions of the minor are not really considered in the grand scope. Mainly is a byproduct of our overworked legal system and staff and general lack of understanding of the scope of non nurotypical interactions play out. That is also a issue with our society.

[LianaThorne]

To do a degree saying someone who is non neurotypical is insane opens up another ball of wax.

It's the name of the plea/defense, don't act like I'm calling anyone insane. Please click the link and educate yourself and let's not go there. Coming from someone who has several emotional disorders. No one gets a free pass in life regardless of how old you are or what is wrong with your brain. I did messed up shit as a kid and didn't go to jail, but I did get thrown out of my house and forced to be homeless for over a year as punishment for it. Pretty much the same as jail in my opinion.

[Awha]

It's the name of the plea/defense, don't act like I'm calling anyone insane. Please click the link and educate yourself and let's not go there. Coming from someone who has several emotional disorders.

Sorry dyslexic read over the dimismished capacity. Yes it is an option but the problem with that plea it is not a common plea that is offered to many, and given the nature of the plea it has a high standard that has to meant because they do not want it to be abused. Granted it plays into what I said earlier if someone defiences are so serve that is a possibility defense. My stance is mainly for those that do not fall into the extremes our legal system for those without money is not built to handle such Complexities. Often it is about going down the path of least restsiance.

Not that I've seen, but wouldn't be surprised. Wouldn't matter, that's a legal thing and still wouldn't count in this game.

Back on topic I think, and from everything I've seen, SE thinks advertising RP in PF is fine. Just keep the ERP out of PF as SE (and most people) are not okay with that. It's really not that hard.



I don't think that's what they were saying at all.

Yeah I got that after the fact that was on me.

[Kaurhz]

Brevity

Of course, it can be, that's the reason why plead of insanity/unfitness exists, and why in the past people have disabilities have tried for it- But it isn't down to whether you're strictly neurotypical or not. It comes down to whether at that moment in time you understood the actions you were committing and whether you're able to distinguish between right and wrong at that given time.

The very fact they did commit the act in the first place shows willingness.

As a previous post highlighted. Children often lack sufficient real-world experience and development to understand their actions. Many children won't and don't understand their actions could lead to someone being placed on a watchlist, to someone losing their job, to someone going to prison, or to someone being indefinitely barred from certain professions- Hence real-world experiences. The person making the claim this child was deliberately out to ruin their life would need to prove without a reasonable doubt they understood the gravity of their decisions. Heck, children try to bait children into specific naughty acts, let alone adults too. You'd find it hard to convince anyone that a child is cognizant of all of these points.

People lie about their age all of the time in order to bait individuals, this is something you see very particularly on Discord - I don't mean an individual posing as an 18-year-old- But rather a fully grown adult saying they're a child, and more often than not in these cases you'd more than likely need to prove that you had the intention of doing illicit acts with this 'child' - "Are you sure you want to do stuff with me even though I'm 13?" - It is nobody else's fault that the individual cannot restrain themselves, barring that of their own. The person just facilitated that possibility- Whether the facilitation was from malice or not doesn't matter- Goes back to the lovely thing of you, and you alone shown the willingness to participate. This is why I am adamantly, vehemently, utterly, unequivocally against exposing people not of appropriate maturity or development to certain situations because this is precisely where it comes a slippery slope for both the child and the adult, in what they both would otherwise view as a mundane social activity of no consequence.

Whether or not it goes beyond doesn't really matter, the topic of this thread pertains to XIV, and what you've mentioned- Everything- All this crusading is a perfect reason why this stuff should never exist on the party finder.

If we're taking this outside of XIV and making it a more generalized topic, then everything you've been harping for is extraordinarily anti-pragmatic, and very poor use of time- Unfortunately for individuals that aren't neurotypical is very hard to prove it impacted them in that context. -- I may seem very blunt here, but it is a society we live in and adults should all be treated as equal, as the actions of that individual go on to either set bad trends or significantly impact other people. Personally, as someone with ASD/ADHD I wouldn't want to be treated like a special case for any given situation, and instead, be put upon the exact same benchmark as every other individual in society.

Yes, it is crazy, because you don't understand that a child lacks sufficient real-world experiences to understand the gravity of the decisions they're making. Whether or not non-neurotypical adults do not- They still have sufficient real-world experiences to understand the gravity of their decisions- and that otherwise mundane choices can have severe consequences.

[Awha]

Of course, it can be, that's the reason why plead of insanity/unfitness exists, and why in the past people have disabilities have tried for it- But it isn't down to whether you're strictly neurotypical or not. It comes down to whether at that moment in time you understood the actions you were committing and whether you're able to distinguish between right and wrong at that given time.

The very fact they did commit the act in the first place shows willingness.

As a previous post highlighted. Children often lack sufficient real-world experience and development to understand their actions. Many children won't and don't understand their actions could lead to someone being placed on a watchlist, to someone losing their job, to someone going to prison, or to someone being indefinitely barred from certain professions- Hence real-world experiences. The person making the claim this child was deliberately out to ruin their life would need to prove without a reasonable doubt they understood the gravity of their decisions. Heck, children try to bait children into specific naughty acts, let alone adults too. You'd find it hard to convince anyone that a child is cognizant of all of these points.

People lie about their age all of the time in order to bait individuals, this is something you see very particularly on Discord - I don't mean an individual posing as an 18-year-old- But rather a fully grown adult saying they're a child, and more often than not in these cases you'd more than likely need to prove that you had the intention of doing illicit acts with this 'child' - "Are you sure you want to do stuff with me even though I'm 13?" - It is nobody else's fault that the individual cannot restrain themselves, barring that of their own. The person just facilitated that possibility- Whether the facilitation was from malice or not doesn't matter- Goes back to the lovely thing of you, and you alone shown the willingness to participate. This is why I am adamantly, vehemently, utterly, unequivocally against exposing people not of appropriate maturity or development to certain situations because this is precisely where it comes a slippery slope for both the child and the adult, in what they both would otherwise view as a mundane social activity of no consequence.

Whether or not it goes beyond doesn't really matter, the topic of this thread pertains to XIV, and what you've mentioned- Everything- All this crusading is a perfect reason why this stuff should never exist on the party finder.

If we're taking this outside of XIV and making it a more generalized topic, then everything you've been harping for is extraordinarily anti-pragmatic, and very poor use of time- Unfortunately for individuals that aren't neurotypical is very hard to prove it impacted them in that context. -- I may seem very blunt here, but it is a society we live in and adults should all be treated as equal, as the actions of that individual go on to either set bad trends or significantly impact other people. Personally, as someone with ASD/ADHD I wouldn't want to be treated like a special case for any given situation, and instead, be put upon the exact same benchmark as every other individual in society.

Yes, it is crazy, because you don't understand that a child lacks sufficient real-world experiences to understand the gravity of the decisions they're making. Whether or not non-neurotypical adults do not- They still have sufficient real-world experiences to understand the gravity of their decisions- and that otherwise mundane choices can have severe consequences.

That is my issue, the general idea is that committing the action does not mean one had a willingness to commit an illegal act. Our legal and social structure do not reflect that action on individuals past a certain age. Certain considerations should be made fair is not equal. I am not asking that people with certain developmental defiences should get a pass but it should be taken into consideration and not just as a passing thought.

DependIn on how much it impacts you they did it for us in school I had double time for exams in school. I thought it was fair though I ran into others that thought it was not fair because it was not equal and some even claimed that my test scores should not be weighted the same and yes gpa should reflect it. You cannot always treat everyone equally, but we can always treat people fairly and that does mean understanding that. It everyone is equal.

Generally I agree non neurotypical adults that have been deemed capable of living on their own or with limited care understand the basic social structure of right and wrong. My point is just because they may understand does not mean they have the social experience amassed to navigate through deception. This is what makes it difficult cause even if they can prove they had no idea they were operating under the knowledge the person was of age. It shifts the responsibility to the minor which just does not sit well with many even though they were the one that lied and the adult was operating under a false premise of the, being of age. They had no desire or willingness to engage in such activity. I have seen it even when the minor in question comes out and say yes they lied, yes they knew they were lying etc . . . Still came on the adult how come you just did not know? Why didn’t you err on the side of caution? The signs were clear as day etc . . . Even now I do not know how they could have proven beyond reasonable doubt they did not know or they could not see signs others could easily point out. They had far too much stacked against them.

I know many wil disagee but I think everyone should be treated fairly and sometimes that does not mean equally.

For some it is not that adult was someone that fell through the cracks did not get the help they needed early on due to parent negligence, and negative stigma around ASD at the time. Guy is facing time for just believing someone. Sure he got a reduced sentence due to the circumstances but sadly his life will never be the same.

I am sorry I know naive to think our legal system should reflect and treat everyone fairly. I am sorry I do not see how my stance is all that crazy. Impertcial I can see but crazy idk.

This is what I do not get you can understand the gravity of your actions and still end up trusting someone that ends getting them in trouble later. I agree with across the board people that lie and manipulate others for any form of personal gain or malice should be taken heavily into consideration when it comes to crimes in the legal sense. In some cases it is in others not so much.

[Kaurhz]

That is my issue, the general idea is that committing the action does not mean one had a willingness to commit an illegal act. Our legal and social structure do not reflect that action on individuals past a certain age. Certain considerations should be made fair is not equal. I am not asking that people with certain developmental defiences should get a pass but it should be taken into consideration and not just as a passing thought.

DependIn on how much it impacts you they did it for us in school I had double time for exams in school. I thought it was fair though I ran into others that thought it was not fair because it was not equal and some even claimed that my test scores should not be weighted the same and yes gpa should reflect it. You cannot always treat everyone equally, but we can always treat people fairly and that does mean understanding that. It everyone is equal.

But it does, you doing the act, were you making a conscious decision to do something, therefore willing to commit the said act, or at the least have participated in- Nobody held you hostage about it- You and you alone made the decision to do it. If someone comes to you, then you make the conscious decision to either turn them down or not. It does but they're held to an exceptionally high standard to thus prevent misuse therein. Having a disability does not qualify you for being successful in such a plea. You need to prove in that moment, or that you were completely incapable of understanding the nature and consequence of such actions.

You get extra time for having a diagnosed learning disability/difficulty- Now sure, I can see where you're getting at here, but the problem here is not on the basis of learning but on the basis of having an understanding of the world around you. If you're capable of paying your rent on a monthly basis then you're capable of understanding that your actions have consequences. School, society, and the internet all put burdens on understanding these constructs in a sufficient enough manner to know why they aren't a good idea.

Treating people fairly and equally are 1 in the same thing. The problem with what you'd be asking for is that your actions have consequences to those around you, as do the actions of people around you have consequences on you and should be judged in accordance with that, as opposed to whether you're neurotypical or not- Now I will at least say I can personally, on an individual level understand why you hate this on a matter of principle, but it is a society of people. Whether or not you're neurotypical or not doesn't matter since you're still interacting with the world around you and the world around you expects everything, and everyone to be held to the very same standard irrespective of what hand you're dealt; you're still required to interact with the world around you.

[Awha]

But it does, you doing the act, were you making a conscious decision to do something, therefore willing to commit the said act, or at the least have participated in- Nobody held you hostage about it- You and you alone made the decision to do it. If someone comes to you, then you make the conscious decision to either turn them down or not. It does but they're held to an exceptionally high standard to thus prevent misuse therein. Having a disability does not qualify you for being successful in such a plea. You need to prove in that moment, or that you were completely incapable of understanding the nature and consequence of such actions.

You get extra time for having a diagnosed learning disability/difficulty- Now sure, I can see where you're getting at here, but the problem here is not on the basis of learning but on the basis of having an understanding of the world around you. If you're capable of paying your rent on a monthly basis then you're capable of understanding that your actions have consequences. School, society, and the internet all put burdens on understanding these constructs in a sufficient enough manner to know why they aren't a good idea.

Treating people fairly and equally are 1 in the same thing. The problem with what you'd be asking for is that your actions have consequences to those around you, as do the actions of people around you have consequences on you and should be judged in accordance with that, as opposed to whether you're neurotypical or not- Now I will at least say I can personally, on an individual level understand why you hate this on a matter of principle, but it is a society of people. Whether or not you're neurotypical or not doesn't matter since you're still interacting with the world around you and the world around you expects everything, and everyone to be held to the very same standard irrespective of what hand you're dealt; you're still required to interact with the world around you.

I get what you are saying though the problem with that position is the grounds on which the person made said choice were a lie. We have these protections in place when it comes to contracts for example. If someone signs into a contract under the premise of x because they were told x and turns out x was a lie the contract is void.

Not sure how to even frame this cause I have never engaged in idle chat with other where I ask their age, or have any desire to do anything more. What ima, trying to say if a the premise of the encounter between two people is built on a lie or misinformation is it really fair to place the burden squarely on the adult in this case cause they believed said lie or bought into the misinformation.

In get contracts are normally done between tow adults so thus why it is easily broken when it is built around a lie, though in this case the adult thought they ere eganging in a contract with an adult so shouldn’t the same level of consideration and forgiveness be granted?

Personally fair cannot mean equal cause not everyone is created equally. Making things fair is about leveling the playing field. Since if you gave the same consideration to someone that did not need them it would provide an unsesscary advantage.

If you treat everyone equally the one that needs extra considerations will fall thro8gh the cracks.

I get where you are coming from though that will live in a society and as such very rarely we run into situations where the consequences Do not ripple and impact others around negatively. Thus making my stance impractical from a social context.

Thought generally I disagree if someone is capable of living on their own be with or without limited care. Handling the tasks that adults are expected to handle it does not mean they have the social experience to navigate what others find easy social interactions. I speak also from personal experience cause I live on my own, work pay my bills etc . . . And I most social interactions go over my head either when it comes to friendly banter or otherwise. I cannot tell the difference between flirting with intent and flirting just for fun. Which if I lacked impulse control could easily get me into a lot of trouble.

[Arillyn]

To do a degree saying someone who is non neurotypical is insane opens up another ball of wax.



Someone before brought up the legal context again which opened up the can of worms. Though generally when it comes to sexual related crimes between adult and minor often times the actions of the minor are not really considered in the grand scope. Mainly is a byproduct of our overworked legal system and staff and general lack of understanding of the scope of non nurotypical interactions play out. That is also a issue with our society.

Nor should they be. A minor is a minor and under the law is a victim in sexual related crimes. It doesn't matter if the victim is a prostitute. He or she is a minor and more than likely in that instance is also a victim of trafficking. Adults know better and adults are the ones who use weasel words and phrases and what ifs to try and get out of trouble when they get caught doing something with a minor that is illegal.

And while I get where you are trying to go with the non-neurotypical adult - that's still not going to fly if the non-neurotypical adult can handle day to day things for themselves and know right from wrong. (I have non-neurotypical family members - I know how this works.) Besides that, if the minor is a victim - I promise you it doesn't matter to that minor of the adult was a non-neurotypical adult or a neurotypical adult - the damage to the minor is the same.

I'm sorry, these posts are now starting to make me angry so this will probably be my last one. They are making me angry because it's getting to the point of victim shaming.

[Vahlnir]

Nor should they be. A minor is a minor and under the law is a victim in sexual related crimes. It doesn't matter if the victim is a prostitute. He or she is a minor and more than likely in that instance is also a victim of trafficking. Adults know better and adults are the ones who use weasel words and phrases and what ifs to try and get out of trouble when they get caught doing something with a minor that is illegal.

And while I get where you are trying to go with the non-neurotypical adult - that's still not going to fly if the non-neurotypical adult can handle day to day things for themselves and know right from wrong. (I have non-neurotypical family members - I know how this works.) Besides that, if the minor is a victim - I promise you it doesn't matter to that minor of the adult was a non-neurotypical adult or a neurotypical adult - the damage to the minor is the same.

I'm sorry, these posts are now starting to make me angry so this will probably be my last one. They are making me angry because it's getting to the point of victim shaming.

You're wasting your time with this guy specifically on this issue. Take it from someone who has tried on multiple occasions.

[Kaurhz]

brevity

Sure that is a valid point, but it is moot because it is a false equivalence.

The problem here is interacting with people that are minors.. No minor is ever going to report you, and nor would a case go anywhere unless you minor explicitly revealed their age to you.

So let's look at a hypothetical situation. Minor lies about their age or doesn't reveal it and the venue is of 18+ then the probability; minor isn't going to report you, and if they do nothing would come of the situation, more than likely because there was no level of mutual understanding. Legally, you'd actually be protected under this premise to my limited understanding. (I could be wrong on this), but I don't think it constitutes knowingly

Now if this hypothetical situation were to extend further, and the minor then later revealed their age to you, this is the moment that you would be under obligation to warn the person of their actions and the consequences therein, and then tell the child you cannot go further, alongside potentially cutting contact with them, and telling them you can no longer engage in online solicitation. The premise of your communication will have been formed on misinformation and deliberate. However, this would be the cut-off point in which an individual should understand their actions and that proceeding further is likely to get you in trouble for online solicitation with someone not of appropriate age. The basis with which your communication was formed probably won't matter, but further continuing that communication would matter. This is more than likely what you'd be judged upon, as at this point you will have knowingly engaged in such acts at this point.

Jesus Christ. I'm not even sure how I should dignify it with a response, but again it goes back to the whole, you're part of a collective society thus you have as much responsibility as anyone else in the society to do your part, irrespective of what circumstance may otherwise dictate. If you qualify for certain circumstances, then you'll get them, which covers those that would otherwise need additional consideration. But irrespective of this you still should be tried accordingly, with the only differentiation being you're put into a mental institution as opposed to a prison. Everything else, you should be tried as an adult, because it correctly and accurately represents you as a member of a functioning society.

It's impractical from a social construct perspective, but it is also a disservice to those around you, and a massive disservice to yourself; even if you may feel contrary to this -- because it doesn't accurately convey the gravity of their actions, consequentially speaking. As a child, I was ever a problem child, and regularly had meetings with a psychiatrist. -- The biggest and best wakeup call I had from her is when she told me my actions had consequences, and then further aided this point by telling me if my behavior were to continue into adulthood then anything I do, would be done as an adult, and thus tried as such.