Will there be an official response about Party Finder advertising?

[EtherRose]

This game's moderation disagrees with you on that one:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5512931

They reversed the actions taken against RPers when 1 GM was dishing out warnings to RPers in error. The ERP side is a little more hazy because of questions of the game's rating, the legal aspect etc, but RP is not an issue.

There's an 'Other' tab, which is appropriate for such listings.

Yea, no. The moderation was in the right before they undid it because it exploded. If it didn't gain much traction and attention it wouldn't have been reversed but people whine. As the GM stated the PF is a feature used for creating parties to clear content. The "Other" tab doesn't include RP, no. The "Other" tab would be used more for people looking to create static parties for raids, etc. RP'ing is not a raid, dungeon, etc. Therefore it's not needed at all in the PF.

Again, PF is a feature to create parties to clear content. Not your social venue. This is common sense and the point that is being made.

[Vahlnir]

Just wondering are people against ERP because of the children? I do not rp or erp but what people I do find it strange that some wish to police some parts of the community and judge them for how they may find enjoyment.

I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own chats/houses, so long as it's between 2 or more consenting adults and is legal/not against the ToS. But there is a very real concern about underage players getting involved and I feel that should be taken very seriously, and one of the ways that could be addressed is to limit what is shown on the PF or spammed in area chats. Mature adults don't need to see that crap, let alone anyone else. If people want to set up these sort of events, use Discord or something and moderate it accordingly.

[van_arn]

Just wondering are people against ERP because of the children? I do not rp or erp but what people I do find it strange that some wish to police some parts of the community and judge them for how they may find enjoyment.

The counter question would be why do these exhibitionists feel the need to publicly broadcast their non-family friendly behavior to the rest of the server, and why they think they should be able to broadcast any content publicly that isn’t suitable for everyone.

As everyone is involved in this, yes—children are included in that as a component. Arguably the most important component, but not the only component. Square does have liability in regards to minors, liability they don’t have in regards to rmt spam.

That said, we need to nuke rmt spam as well. Basically gms need to do their job; pf in its current state is inexcusable between the smut and the rmt, and if Square can’t do anything about it to at least provide a facade of a well-kept community then they need to remove the player ability to make custom pf messages altogether.

[Saefinn]

Yea, no. The moderation was in the right before they undid it because it exploded. If it didn't gain much traction and attention it wouldn't have been reversed but people whine. As the GM stated the PF is a feature used for creating parties to clear content. The "Other" tab doesn't include RP, no. The "Other" tab would be used more for people looking to create static parties for raids, etc. RP'ing is not a raid, dungeon, etc. Therefore it's not needed at all in the PF.

Again, PF is a feature to create parties to clear content. Not your social venue. This is common sense and the point that is being made.

It was one singular GM that was doing this. People from the start suspected maybe it's one GM who has made a mistake. Somebody also posted in that big thread a response they have had from a GM before that who said it's fine. Somebody else posed the questions to GM's who said it's fine as long as the content of the PF post doesn't violate ToS. There's nothing in the ToS that suggests RP is inappropriate use of the PF.

This was after years of the GM's not taking any action against RPers using it in this way and suddenly out of the blue one singular GM started doing it.

Then the official response comes out saying it's somebody who made a mistake like people suspected, that their standards haven't changed and that people who hadn't committed wrong doing had their strikes lifted and that it's all fine as long as you follow the ToS, which was consistent with what GM's previously have said.

So I don't think it was them bowing to it exploding. I think it was genuinely one guy getting it wrong because that's what the evidence pointed to and then a community rep confirmed it was the case.

And people consider RP to be content, ableit player driven content but it requires a group of people and makes use of game features. So it can be seen as reasonable for people to use the PF for that purpose until such time a more dedicated tool appears. But they've never come out suggesting this is inappropriate use, if anything GM's have been fine with it. Except one guy...who turned out to have got it wrong.

[Aethie_Shadowus]

It could also be that no one reported RP of any kind before. It seems as though more than a couple of people have come out as steadfastly opposed to any RP on PF at all, meaning it is just as possible that no one had ever been so callous as to report RP'ers for just enjoying the game before now, and now that they've seen it works they are trying to lift all of it out and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Saidosha]

While I don't RP in XIV, I have been RPing online since the 90's. Various locales have tried to quell ERP or forms of RP not within the host's intent, but it is still going to happen. It's unavoidable. Over time, the wisest choice usually boils down to, "If you're going to do it, do it in private." Just trying to be more aggressive isn't going to stop people from adopting workarounds, be it specifically in the PF, wordplay through shouts, social media, discords, etc.. The implication some make that this is even in the same league as RMT in terms of impacting the game is... bonkers, to be polite about it.

And while we can be all, "Think of the children!" about it, it's so utterly simple to lie about your age in-game if questioned. Other media like Twitch has basically hit a point where people asking for age is a bannable offense, not just because of hypothetical predators, but because adults wanting to run adult content (not just lewd) don't want to be responsible for the antics of a juvenile that thinks they're clever, mature for their age, or whatever. So, while it takes on an element of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, you're simply not going to have definitive proof unless you start demanding scans of photo ID or other RL information that many people will understandably NOT want to share with strangers, let alone corporations.

The best the haters can and should hope for is a tab dedicated to RP. Reporting people who don't set it up properly should just have their party re-categorized. If it happens repeatedly, then the GM can mute that player's PF options. The belief that this game is solely about combat content is a fallacious one. There is that "RP" in "MMORPG" after all, and the creativity of willing players serves as a wellspring of user-generated content that can also extend subscriptions. Not liking or not participating is fine. Squelching it is not an option. Acting on people who publicly lewd, however, is. Reining in a rogue GM seems to be about in line with this, as SE going unjustifiably nuclear on any kind of RPer will not end well.

[van_arn]

snip for length

In essence, you're saying "because Square won't be able to clean this up because people want it, then they shouldn't even bother."

That's the RMT argument. You're applying it to brothel ads in a T-rated game.

No.

Just because Square might need to play whack-a-mole does not mean they have the luxury of just letting things sit up on partyfinder. Just because we have the option to blacklist runsellers does not absolve Square the responsibility to present their players with a partyfinder that that does not look run-down and abandoned by the gods. Just because some people like to ERP in private does not mean they get to advertise that fetish to all in public, especially when that public includes children. Just because it's a never-ending fight doesn't mean it's not worth fighting at all.

If Square does not have the resources to keep Partyfinder free of ERP and RMT undesirables without player intervention of a report, I'm entirely fine with removing any custom messages in party finder. RPers would be inconvenienced by this, but I'm confident (as you say) they'd find a way to deal with the change of plans. Just like we've seen with RMT.

[Vahlnir]

In essence, you're saying "because Square won't be able to clean this up because people want it, then they shouldn't even bother."

That's the RMT argument. You're applying it to brothel ads in a T-rated game.

No.

Just because Square might need to play whack-a-mole does not mean they have the luxury of just letting things sit up on partyfinder. Just because we have the option to blacklist runsellers does not absolve Square the responsibility to present their players with a partyfinder that that does not look run-down and abandoned by the gods. Just because some people like to ERP in private does not mean they get to advertise that fetish to all in public, especially when that public includes children. Just because it's a never-ending fight doesn't mean it's not worth fighting at all.

If Square does not have the resources to keep Partyfinder free of ERP and RMT undesirables without player intervention of a report, I'm entirely fine with removing any custom messages in party finder. RPers would be inconvenienced by this, but I'm confident (as you say) they'd find a way to deal with the change of plans. Just like we've seen with RMT.

Well said.

[Awha]

In the end I get where you are coming from but personally I do not think it is that major of an issue to go with the scorched earth approach. Combating RMT and trying to protect children is noble but when the steps used to protect them start to inconvenience legit players then I say it is too much. Like I said I am not an RPer but they should have every right to use the other tab to promote their own style of play and content. Does that mean I am in favor of erp advertising? No, but purging all to or custom messages is overkill. It is akin to pop feast chat. Sure it was toxic at times but removing the ability to chat just incovenced legit players those wishing to be toxic still found a way. Same will be done with the erp and RMT. They will find a way and barely be phased by it. Those who were using it in a non malicious manner are the ones that will feel it the most. Sure they can and would adapt but why should they.

Overall I get the stance of protect the children but that is not the job of the community. They put their age restrictions if someone is willing to lie about their age in a video game so be it. That should be a problem for the child and their parents if something negative comes about their lying.

[EmoPanther]

I actually wandered into a Erp event in Wow when I was like 12 :/ No idea what was going on until about 10 minutes after a Troll started Rping some Bdsm crap with me :/ It was really wierd..