Roleplay/Partyfinder Discrepancies & Policy Enforcement by GM's

[Awha]

Personally I highly doubt they will reverse the strikes placed on the accounts. Also as a player we have no means to confirm it either way. Most the GM responses seem like formulated PR speak.

Granted this reminds me a lot of the whole difference in play style thing. People have proof from both sides when it came to GM's that either confirmed or denied such a clause was a thing. End of the day GM's rule by interpretation sometimes you get one that rules in your favor and others times you do not. Never been a GM but I do not think they are given a handbook as to how to handle every possible situation they are meant to use their own understanding and knowledge of the rules and take action accordingly.

[SturmChurro]

People have filed direct reports about this and received the response that they are reviewing the actions taken by the GM and "will be taking the necessary actions to correct and resolve any mistakes that were made on their behalf", so if anyone got caught up in a blanket ban without cause hopefully at least those can be reversed.

I have complained for years about SE's enforcement of the ToS. You don't really get "warnings", and strikes are forever. It is unfortunate, if some players are actually innocent and have gotten hit. At the very least this brings to light the way SE handles moderation, making more players aware of what really goes on. I am not sure these warnings or strikes will actually be reversed, however.

It's also targeting many non ERP ones too. At no point in the logs is profanity referenced but party finder usage for social purposes.

And if it was profanity I wouldn't expect the solution to be to use /sh or the Fellowship Finder because wouldn't it still be profanity regardless of where it's posted?

There's no separate ToS stipulations for profanity between PF, shout and Fellowship Finder.

So if it IS profanity and this is what they constitute as violating this part of the ToS, then all the GM is doing is saying "go break this rule somewhere else" whilst explaining the broken rule isn't profanity but misusing the PF.

Whilst ERP was the nature of the report we know about, but there is a disconnect between the report and this GM's actions.

Yes, but if they didn't target all party finder advertisements, some adult advertisements* would slip through the cracks. It's called scorched earth for a reason. The goal seems to be ridding PF of ERP, at the cost of regular RP. What players should be asking SE for now is, better social features, or a social finder, etc.

I really wish I could tell you what I thought SE was doing here with the ToS, but I honestly do not know. I have heard, "profanity" is what is being cited as the ToS violation for many of these players. The correlation is the purge of ERP advertisements. As I was saying before, in my opinion, the way SE handles moderation is the issue here. What I think is SE being heavy handed, and selective, with their enforcement of their tos, along with a severe lack of communication only makes this issue worse. It's not like this hasn't been a thing for years, well before RPers were getting hit.

[JanVanding]

I feel like I just went cross eyed.
If you don't say 18+ then how do you age filter...... do you go up to every person that walks in and ask "Hey, how old are you irl? Can I see some license and registration"?
By the way, how did this thread spiral from being about Party Finder issues to being about whether or not adults should vanish into thin air because children exist and constantly attempt to chase them around.

As others have said..hey. When I was 16? I was all over fanfiction sites. That doesnt mean the site did anything wrong, it asked me how old I was. and I lied! Turns out you get access to fun things when you lie! but that doesnt mean the fun things should pack up-I mean if you really wanted to be particular, the fault should be on Square themselves for somehow still letting kids in. So what's the solution then, delete the game? Youth are youth. They're dumb because they're supposed to be. All you can do is live your life and if you realize someone you're talking to is a kid, direct them to the nearest spongebob episode and then block them and warn the rest of us adults that "hey, we have a nickelodeon escapee running around, make sure not to talk to them". Why am I even talking about this none of this is the point-

Glad to see that GM got snatched up, but I hope they make it a lot more clear what exactly is allowed and what isnt. That's what matters most. I think the idea of having an "other" tab in the Party Finder was a great START, but needs more expanding on. Fellowship was an attempt. Community Finder was a better attempt. but you need something more...instant gratificationy.
No one wants to post on a Fellowship, it's embarrassing feeling.
and the Community Finder while useful for finding FCs isnt as usual for finding events.

Event finder..that should be the next social driven idea that they pursue. Maybe a separate window specifically for players to post current and coming events-current being the big one. People want to see something that's happening right now. Either simply put a separate "RP" tag in the Party Finder, or duplicate the Party Finder but name it the Event Finder. Something like that, ezpz.

It would be a matter of the adult stuff being kept private and people would enquire about it.

So say someone comes to the bar and asks for a drink, it's all non alcoholic, they ask got anything stiffer? Then the person behind the bar would ask them to join their discord so they can age verify them

It's not a perfect solution, but its better than no solution at all

[Yencat]

I have complained for years about SE's enforcement of the ToS. You don't really get "warnings", and strikes are forever. It is unfortunate, if some players are actually innocent and have gotten hit. At the very least this brings to light the way SE handles moderation, making more players aware of what really goes on.

Yeah they call these penalties "Warnings" themselves, so it might sound like just a verbal slap on the wrist but it is a permanent strike.

I'm certainly not going to bat for brothels and ERP in the PF or anywhere else, but if they did go scorched earth on every RP listing it's very harsh for people not engaging in that to also get hit.

[Shinklet]

I don't think a GM had bad or agenda fueled intentions.

I personally believe this come from a result of SE's terrible management of their GM's by forcing them to tread on eggshells well it comes to advertising.

[Niflheim]

Thanks for your work, GM.

I really appreciate Party Finder being cleaner, with actual ads of parties instead of people selling themselves (or clears).

[Airyll]

It would be a matter of the adult stuff being kept private and people would enquire about it.

So say someone comes to the bar and asks for a drink, it's all non alcoholic, they ask got anything stiffer? Then the person behind the bar would ask them to join their discord so they can age verify them

It's not a perfect solution, but its better than no solution at all

Which doesn't work, because if it is a younger person trying to get in on stuff that an adult wouldn't want them to participate in if they knew their age, then they'll lie about it on Discord. What else would you ask? "Show me your driver's license" wouldn't work - not every adult has one of those. "Show me your passport" also doesn't work, etc. etc. Your entire suggestion just doesn't work and it amazes me that you think Discord will somehow prove somebody's age where FFXIV won't; Discord doesn't have access to personal identifying information either and also relies on users to be honest about their age.

The hoops you people jump through in this "What About The Children Please Think Of The Children" blow my mind because, if you haven't realised, lying about your age on the internet has been A Thing since the inception of the internet and still hasn't been fixed by literally any company on literally any platform that doesn't have legal reasons to force users to provide copies of actual photo ID. You are asking roleplayers to do the impossible and then trying to pretend it's reasonable. You're also acting like roleplayers, I dunno, don't already try their best to confirm that people who join certain spaces are age appropriate by doing things like asking how old they are, and maybe sometimes asking a couple of their friends to try catch liars. Which is a bold assumption to make.

[Silverrr]

Party can mean a variety of things in the context of the game. Just because you don't agree with me, doesn't mean I'm dense. They are still gathering people for entertainment, IE: a party. Whether it's the traditional "game mechanic" version of a party or not is irrelevant.

There's nothing wrong with RP venues posting in PF and I honestly look at PF first if I want to go to a venue before trying to sort through anything else. Which I don't since I rather not leave game to seek something in game. Just imagine raiders being told not to post party finders for their statics and having to use other means to find people. A lot of people would be raging in the other direction then.

No one would give an f, most static recruitment is done on discord anyway not pf

[Nataruma]

I just want to toss in my two gil here and say 18+ =/= ERP.

I run a couple FCs with my mates and we list in our rules that we're 18+ for the simple fact that we do not wish for any snotty-nosed under 18s to join our communities. Usually maturity comes with age, and while I realise that this isn't always the case (I've had to deal with some pretty bratty 40+ year-olds), it does filter out most of the bratty riffraff. I would exercise caution before making assumptions about why an FC or event would be labelled as 18+ when the intention is far more innocuous than it may seem initially.

[Saefinn]

Snip.

Whilst I agree there is an issue with moderation and enforcement.

But your claim doesn't match the GM's reasoning or their actions.

Profanity isn't mentioned in the logs, ERP isn't brought up, social use of PF is given as the reasoning and advice given on how to advertise social RP without violating the PF's intended use. Not to stop advertising ERP. Everything about their handling suggests social use of the PF is the problem.

This is where the disconnect is between the two arguments.

There was the report transcript somebody posted of them speaking to a GM to report ERP advertisements, they gave a list of offenders and the GM said they would investigate them. This is the only evidence I see to tie ERP, we don't know this was the report that triggered it but the GM's approach suggests nothing scorched earth here but looking at specific cases. They've not even affirmed ERP use is an offense, a previous GM suggested it isn't.

I think too many assumptions are being made.

I accept it is possible their intention to go after ERP adverts and got way too heavy handed, but evidence thus far I don't think backs this up, so I am not inclined to make this assumption (Occam's razor again)

Especially as I am not even 100% sure they count as a violation. Profanity refers to the language used and not what it is used to describe. You can write erotica without using profanities and no advertisements I've seen use profanity.