LET PEOPLE CHANGE CLASS AT THE START OF DELUBRUM

[Burningskull]

In theory this works... but with so many people cheesing the queue in order to make sure they get nothing harder than World of Darkness, in practice I'm not sure this would work. Prior to the relic, you could easily wait over half an hour to get into the Ivalice raids. I speak from trying to get in to get certain gear for blue mage prior to its level cap increase to level 70. Queues for Obornne Monastery would take 20-30 minutes.

Adding them into the alliance raid roulette wouldn't be a bad thing, but I'm not sure it would be enough on its own to future-proof the content.

yeah I don't think they can add them to alliance raid roulette unless they either prevent people from rigging what the roulette will pop, or move everything after crystal tower raids into their own roulette (at which point people probably cheese for the heavensward raids)

Haha. You are both right that it wouldn't be a 100% future proof for the reasons you stated. However it would help if only a little.

[Alleo]

It does require at least rank 10 and a run of castrum to unlock, and I don't think someone will have made it to rank 10 and through castrum with 0 fragments. The quests themselves award a few, as I recall. Granted they may have fragments that aren't exactly optimal for any particular kind of loadout but if these are players who don't really care about bozja or castrum we're talking about here, they can just use anything at all and it'll help. There isn't a particular need for them to be concerned with running out or using their good stuff before they need it because they're never going to need it later.

Fragments that some might have already used on their way to unlock castrum. And it also still depends on RNG. Also what if they do use the good stuff in DR and its a failure run? Suddenly no actions for the next try.

And all of this ignores the good argument someone else already posted: If you queue as a DD you might simply not want to tank or heal. What if everyone is like that? Who will do it then?

Iscah also had a nice idea with giving certain builds that will already have these skills.

[RyuDragnier]

If you queue as a DD you might simply not want to tank or heal. What if everyone is like that? Who will do it then?

Somebody will, otherwise everybody in the run shares equal blame for being too lazy to actively try to succeed. You either use essences and lost skills to try to clear, or you leave because you didn't actually want to put in the effort for it, you just wanted a carry.

[Alleo]

Somebody will, otherwise everybody in the run shares equal blame for being too lazy to actively try to succeed. You either use essences and lost skills to try to clear, or you leave because you didn't actually want to put in the effort for it, you just wanted a carry.

Ah got it, so someone that uses any kind of lost skill is already better no matter how often they will die than a person that might already know the whole fight and can do it without messing up but just has useless essences in their bag.

[Mavrias]

Ah got it, so someone that uses any kind of lost skill is already better no matter how often they will die than a person that might already know the whole fight and can do it without messing up but just has useless essences in their bag.

I'd again like to point out that you can buy fragments to turn into essences on the market board if you really don't wanna go kill a few enemies in the field.

[Seraphor]

Ah got it, so someone that uses any kind of lost skill is already better no matter how often they will die than a person that might already know the whole fight and can do it without messing up but just has useless essences in their bag.

Straw man argument.

Obviously you can't use what you don't have, but chances are someone will have the essences and lost skills required to tank, and the healing skills are very common.
It's common sense to use what you have to make the run easier. There's nothing else to save your essences for so you may as well use them.

You don't even need to have a dedicate tank for most of it. I did a run where we had 2 PLD's, neither of which were too keen to actually tank. After we pulled and it was clear neither had tank stance on, I ended up tanking as RDM somehow. Luckily I was using essence of the Beast, that increases damage, defence and grants HP absorb to your attacks, so it wasn't too difficult for the healers in the party to keep me alive.
One of the PLD's turned tank stance on after a while, but then they died at the last boss and I ended up tanking again. managed to stay alive until the tank buster, and which point our SCH took over after my death.
The last battle wasn't clean by any means, but we still cleared and in a reasonable time.

Outside of tank busters, which aren't too often, the damage going out on the tank isn't that bad. You could just rez after each tank buster and treat it as a relay to spread out the mettle cost.

[Alleo]

I'd again like to point out that you can buy fragments to turn into essences on the market board if you really don't wanna go kill a few enemies in the field.

And who knows how expensive they will be. Maybe not now but in the future.

Honestly I am still not sure whats so bad about OPs suggestion? People could still use all their essences with the additional perk that people might be able to switch to better jobs.

@Seraphor: If someone comes out and say that a person not wanting to tank or heal when they queue up as a DD because they dont have the essence or because they are simply afraid of doing that is just looking for a carry and should leave, then this will be my reaction. Having essences does not suddenly makes this a win. Having none also does not make the person terrible and unable to clear. Maybe they even had one of those in a past run and it went badly and now they simply dont want to risk it anymore? Or they just want to get that one little step holding them back from continuing their relic done after trying for a bit.

Also good that you got the right essence and that your group was at least somewhat decent. Now what if you did not have the essence? Wouldnt it be nice to have someone else just switch to a tank job and take over?

I mean with OPs suggestion the current way would not be gone. It would just give more options on top of that.

[Mavrias]

And who knows how expensive they will be. Maybe not now but in the future.

Honestly I am still not sure whats so bad about OPs suggestion? People could still use all their essences with the additional perk that people might be able to switch to better jobs.

@Seraphor: If someone comes out and say that a person not wanting to tank or heal when they queue up as a DD because they dont have the essence or because they are simply afraid of doing that is just looking for a carry and should leave, then this will be my reaction. Having essences does not suddenly makes this a win. Having none also does not make the person terrible and unable to clear. Maybe they even had one of those in a past run and it went badly and now they simply dont want to risk it anymore? Or they just want to get that one little step holding them back from continuing their relic done after trying for a bit.

Also good that you got the right essence and that your group was at least somewhat decent. Now what if you did not have the essence? Wouldnt it be nice to have someone else just switch to a tank job and take over?

I mean with OPs suggestion the current way would not be gone. It would just give more options on top of that.

if you are worried about gil cost then you can go farm them in bozja from enemies that are quite literally just outside of the base camp gate. that's how just about everything in this game works. if I want raid food, I can either craft it myself for free, only needing to spend time gathering the ingredients and crafting the item, or I can buy it for gil on the market board for no effort on my part.

[ForteNightshade]

Somebody will, otherwise everybody in the run shares equal blame for being too lazy to actively try to succeed. You either use essences and lost skills to try to clear, or you leave because you didn't actually want to put in the effort for it, you just wanted a carry.

I don't inherently disagree, however people who are nervous or simply dislike tanking or healing aren't going to be encouraged to try it, especially if they otherwise have no interest in Bozja. From their perspective, farming fragments or clusters wastes time because you don't, technically, need them. Which is why Delubrum should drop substantially more than it does. If you got say, 20-25 clusters each Delubrum, people may experiment more with actions since, hey they're getting a decent amount through the content they're already running. Unfortunately, like I said in a previous post, Delubrum outright discourages such experimentation to try and force people to farm in Bozja.

[Liam_Harper]

Ah got it, so someone that uses any kind of lost skill is already better no matter how often they will die than a person that might already know the whole fight and can do it without messing up but just has useless essences in their bag.

Depends, if the person was dying a lot because it was their first run or two, I'd value them far more than a player who knows the entire fight and can execute it flawlessly yet still chooses to do noodle dps instead of bothering to obtain an Essence and use it. The first person has potential with a bit of practice, the second will indefinitely slow runs down.