Gil stolen through market board

[TurtlesAWD]

Auto-clickers aren't a tool that modifies the game, and in fact probably actually shouldn't be excluded via game rules as they likely have accessibility utility for people with disabilities, so truthfully if I had used an auto-clicker I would tell you. Actually I just woke up at 3am the day the new houses got added and clicked one exactly once.

And that makes me better than you! Everyone knows house ownership is about skill, so because I have a house and you do not, I have more skill. And that's why the housing system needs no changes - it's skill based.

If it wasn't skill based it might be a more open question if it was even possible to cheat, but because it is skill based, we know that cheating in order to circumvent the skill required to purchase a house should be met with full persecution.

lol

[Doozer]

Auto-clickers aren't a tool that modifies the game, and in fact probably actually shouldn't be excluded via game rules as they likely have accessibility utility for people with disabilities

Oh pull the other one.

Don't use people with disabilities as a crutch to justify cheating. That's pretty low, honestly.

[TurtlesAWD]

I really wanna focus on this part here, because I feel like you're not understand what I was originally putting forward.

If you do somethings that is against rules, and it also has negative impacts on others for your own gain, you should receive punishment for it.

You're even saying yourself in your statement to push against me that she didn't think they should be free for what they did. You can feel bad for people who do wrong things, without also letting the wrong thing slip by. OP broke the rules, and their actions easily could have punished somebody else out of something they worked hard for, without any effort on her own end. It's honestly the closest to stealing a house you can get here.

I don't really think it is like stealing a house, and if it's the closest thing it still isn't that close. If a human sits at the computer for 12 hours and clicks nonstop is this truly different than using a tool that clicks your mouse for you? In terms of the availability for that house for other players, the impact is the same. And in both cases, you're unable to use your character for a different in-game activity. Is it that the player who sits there and does it manually is somehow "earning" it? I would hope not - that behavior is explicitly what they attempted to prevent by making the timer random. Systemically speaking there is no "earning" a house and they don't want players doing this, either manually or via automation. So should players be punished for manually clicking a house until it becomes available for purchase? I think if you believe that auto clickers are a form of cheating for a house, you're stuck believing that spam clicking at all is cheating for a house. Neither method is the intended way to get a house.

And this is ultimately why I don't think it's worth punishing players who would use an auto clicker to get a house. It's not going to prevent people from doing it - the incentive lies in the way the system is designed. It would be retributive, and it would be retributive for a system that leaves a lot to be desired for what's "fair" to players in the first place. You will never be able to ban, punish, shame, or humiliate people out of using auto clickers, or finding other methods of circumventing it. If you want to advocate for a change to player behavior, you should advocate for a change to the system.

[Kaurhz]

Auto-clickers aren't a tool that modifies the game, and in fact probably actually shouldn't be excluded via game rules as they likely have accessibility utility for people with disabilities, so truthfully if I had used an auto-clicker I would tell you. Actually I just woke up at 3am the day the new houses got added and clicked one exactly once.

And that makes me better than you! Everyone knows house ownership is about skill, so because I have a house and you do not, I have more skill. And that's why the housing system needs no changes - it's skill based.

If it wasn't skill based it might be a more open question if it was even possible to cheat, but because it is skill based, we know that cheating in order to circumvent the skill required to purchase a house should be met with full persecution.

lol

I feel deeply distressed knowing that there's an aura troll on the loose.

Auto clickers aren't a tool that modifies the in-game code, however, in accordance with clause 2.1 which states:

You may not create or use any unauthorized cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software or hardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay

By any reasonable stretch, you can therefore deduce that auto clickers are against the terms of service. Whether it modifies in-game isn't relevant since it is automation that modifies gameplay.

This is tantamount to using a turbo controller and legitimately thinking I'm more skilled than someone else who does not. The element here is largely driven by luck, simply because when a house is available for purchase is completely random unless you use the relocation feature.

Had you not been successful in obtaining a house then you would have been complaining like any other reasonable person would be.

[TurtlesAWD]

Oh pull the other one.

Don't use people with disabilities as a crutch to justify cheating. That's pretty low, honestly.

I mean I've watched a guy with no arms stream counterstrike and he pretty clearly had third party mouse/keyboard tools running - the inputs were all still his own but there was an intermediary set of tools between him and the game client that allowed him to compete in the first place. Would you advcate for him to be VAC banned for interfering with the game client? I'm not an expert on the tools used for playing like that but it's important to keep an open mind for the kind of tools that are useful to people with disabilities.

Most of those dumb-looking infomercials for a product that it looks like nobody would need are actually disability assistance tools, after all. The field for disability assistance is just kind of awful in the states so they end up getting marketed in the worst way.

[TurtlesAWD]

Had you not been successful in obtaining a house then you would have been complaining like any other reasonable person would be.

About the system, not the player, as the post above yours spells out.

Also I sincerely hope i don't come across as legitimately believing having a house makes me better than anyone. That was a joke. I was attempting to highlight that the truth is clearly the opposite - it is random.

[TurtlesAWD]

I do suspect that people who have clicked a house for hours on end may feel a developed sense of entitlement based on an illusion of "earning" a house, in a similar way that someone who buys lotto tickets weekly may feel like they deserve a win.

Perhaps someone in that situation would feel like someone, or some group, who bought a lot of tickets at once and won "cheated" but they had the same individual chance per ticket. Your enemy in this situation is not the other person who bought more lottery tickets, it's the lottery itself.

Lotteries are bad! Advocate for a less random system. You'll get less incentive to circumvent it.

[Kaurhz]

About the system, not the player, as the post above yours spells out.

Also I sincerely hope i don't come across as legitimately believing having a house makes me better than anyone. That was a joke. I was attempting to highlight that the truth is clearly the opposite - it is random.

It spells the same equally about the system and the player. If you'd not gotten it, you could plausibly have the opposite stance on autoclicking. Then again, with the way they've designed it, they've all but encouraged it, albeit not explicitly.

You didn't; it's difficult to derive sarcasm on the internet, especially as of late on here.. Bless you though for being sincere. If you genuinely got your house recently then congratulations!

[Shibi]

I do suspect that people who have clicked a house for hours on end may feel a developed sense of entitlement based on an illusion of "earning" a house, in a similar way that someone who buys lotto tickets weekly may feel like they deserve a win.

Perhaps someone in that situation would feel like someone, or some group, who bought a lot of tickets at once and won "cheated" but they had the same individual chance per ticket.

Well no. It's more like someone buys a ticket legally, while the autoclicker is given a large wad of free tickets.

If one of those free tickets wins, the person who paid will likely not be as happy. At the same time, the person who paid might be quite happy for another genuine winner who also paid.

[TurtlesAWD]

It spells the same equally about the system and the player. If you'd not gotten it, you could plausibly have the opposite stance on autoclicking.

It's maybe impossible to know what my exact response would be but I think I would mostly just more keenly feel the need for a better system. I'm not dead-set on the side of the topic creator in this case - they took their gil into their own hands with the method they tried to use to get it, and that clearly has a risk associated - but I see that as well as a bad outcome of the system since it kind of encourages housing pvp, which is a strange place to be in. Like, the owner of the retainer that sold them the overpriced items - they weren't doing this to mete out a sentence for a crime, it was to make like 6 million gil selling common fish, or whatever it was.

I feel like probably a lot of people try clicking manually until they can't stomach it anymore, then turn to automated methods when it seems like the only option. Personally I didn't feel the need so bad as to hunt one down at all costs, figured I'd take my shot when they made a change like adding more, but... there's a lot of items and game systems that it's hard to make use of without one. Free Companies and Apartments can help with that but, well... they only go so far.

And it probably didn't help that house cleanup for inactivity had been disabled for months.