The Devs have no idea what they are doing with FFXIV’s crafting and economics..

[NanaWiloh]

FF14 2.0 Hardcore crafters: I made millions Crafting long hours everyday and selling goods.


Eve online causal crafters:

[TW-Luna]

I can't think of single MMO where the dev's have their hands deep in the games ecomony. Dev's add vendor prices and a Market system then leave the rest to the player base, their not going to set up a team to monitor and control the games ecomony.

EVE and GuildWars 2 both had economists on the team, or at least did at one point if they don't right now.

[MachaYum]

I definitely agree with this lol Although their overall strategy seems to be wanting Gil to be harder to earn and came by. Gil payout has been removed from collectibles, marketboard has tax no matter which area you buy from, and the crafting is over saturated with crafters. This is all to make Gil harder to earn and come by, which makes having hundreds of millions of Gil more valuable I believe

[Kuroka]

Yet some ppl have so much gil they always could fight off others that dare to invade their markets - or just bot so time is a non factor. The retainer changes killed crafting even more now as you get the 480 crafted HQ gear from them - or the 490 tome right away lol. Basically nothing has any value anymore.... its frustrating.

[Sqwall]

I have come up from the trenches of 1.0 and 2.0 crafting. I have to say this with a bullhorn..."Crafting is mindless now!" There is no strategy after you have found the prefect macro. Eat food, drink medicine, turn on netflix. As a newly minted omni crafter it was WAYYYY harder to become one back in 2.0. The main difference? Classes would share skills NEEDED to make crafting optimal, and you would LOSE money if you didn't. Doable with only one craft leveled, but killed your profit margins.

3.0 even doubled down on this with specialists. You had to seek out a specialist to make something you needed that was from another class, or purchase it at an insane amount. It was in your best interest to pick 3 that you considered your main's and "own" that market the best you could.

Then Materia melding was removed from crafters and pawned off to an NPC. Back then you had to find someone that could meld it for you, tip them, plus the normal cost for each meld. I made good money on this with a capped 50 GSM, and got repeat customers quite often as I just stood in Uldah melding jewelry. This provided GIL to fuel my other crafting operations.

There are way's to get your gear/weapons through crafting and purchasing, and way's to gain your gear/weapons through raids or dungeons. SE just made it incredibly easy to make GIL now more then ever and from my experience stems mostly from the face roll simplicity of gathering classes. Apart from collectibles, gathering is not even a challenge.

Ultimately IMO: You make gathering harder, and crafting will also become harder (no matter the macro used). If I needed an item that is ONLY attained by gathering, like many are, but make it rare to gather. I would spend more time and care with gathering and also the understanding of what it would mean if I would fail the craft with that item. TIME wasted. If SE started screwing with peoples personal TIME, crafting would be fine, the market boards would change drastically. Gatherers win, crafters win, and GIL would have meaning again.

Example: The rare drop of Emerald plating, Ruby plating. Content that isn't to difficult, but the chance of the reward is VERY low. Emerald plating is 150-300k on my server, respective barding is 350-500k and hasn't move much since the release of Emerald Weapon. And this is PURELY cosmetic! A 510 exarhic is 75-90k on my server...WHAT?

SE just needs fix gathering and crafting will "fix" itself. Control the incoming supply, control the low value items. I find it ABSURD that there are 52 hit's on a 510 HQ weapon that is "BiS" for savage, make that 4-5 hits and the price goes WAY up.

[Nabril]

You know this game isn't real life, right?
"The Devs have no idea what they are doing with FFXIV’s crafting and economics.. " = "I can't make as much money as I used to and I'm upset"

[Jojoya]

You know this game isn't real life, right?
"The Devs have no idea what they are doing with FFXIV’s crafting and economics.. " = "I can't make as much money as I used to and I'm upset"

Some people like playing MMORPGs to see how rich they can get. It's pretty common and there's nothing wrong with that. Markets usually have a wide enough variety to leave room for all types of players to sell.

It shouldn't be surprising when some of them are upset that they aren't getting rich as fast as they used to because systems have changed and competition has suddenly increased. I just dislike the ones who go "it's not about the gil" then keeping pushing the discussion back toward how things sell for less gil than they used to. If it wasn't about the gil, they wouldn't be upset they're making less. If you're in it for the gil, be honest. I can respect that even if I don't necessarily agree with changes you want.

It's probably true that SE doesn't have anyone on the staff with expertise in market economies and so "don't know what they're doing". Most MMORPGs don't (think EVE Online is one of the exceptions) because wealth isn't core to game play. Developer generally let players develop markets on their own outside of a few basic restrictions (number of listings in the case of FFXIV). The ironic part is neither do most players. Even if someone has taken economic courses, they don't take into consideration how game systems impact markets differently compared to what we see in the real world with its regulations and limited resources.

As for what they're doing with crafting, we're the ones who don't know what SE is trying to accomplish as they haven't shared their goals with us. We just know how the changes impact our experience.

But crafting is only one part of the game's market economy. Those who are interested in getting rich can always branch out into other areas if they're not getting satisfaction making gil through crafting anymore.

[Sqwall]

Personally I have minor issues with crafting. Yes it's EASY, but given the current stat of crafting gear/melds and the playstyle for how crafting is done? SE really has backed themselves into a corner for fundamentally changing crafting in the future unless they do some BROAD sweeping changes to skills and/or how items are used in crafting.

My opinion the current crafting playstyle will be the same in 6.0 with trained eye having a new trait to 80 level items. And there will be a "Cyrstarium Restoration" once Ishgard wraps up with the new housing for 6.0 launches. That's about it. MAYBE a new crafting class....MAYBE.

My major issues with crafting aren't even tied to how crafting is conducted. It's how I sell my goods. The real META in crafting isn't ishgard resto. It's in selling my items period. You literally have to be THE cheapest on the board and partake in an undercutting war. This is just a STUPID way of selling your items....just stupid and promotes unhealthy competition.

SE needs to evaluate the way items are posted and put in place counter measures for flagrant price adjusting. Bot's are out of control in undercutting to the -1 gil method. So hit them where it hurts...their wallets. If they want adjust prices 15-20 times in a 10 minute period...fine...but they are going to pay for it.

This is MY opinion, but I suggest putting in a fee when adjusting prices. For the first 24 hours of placing an item you will incur a fee when changing the price of any item on the MB. This timer WILL reset every time you adjust your item's selling price. The fee will be 20% of the items listed price. i.e. 100,000 listed price = 20,000 in fees. There should be a penalty for early changes to sales to deter just always being first in line. If the bot community wants to implode a market fine....but they will lose millions if not billions in the process. While I still hold onto my fat stacks for being patient.

I would NEVER repost an item's price if it meant eating into my profit, and this would promote more INTELLIGENT pricing. And the largest thing missing from the MB this will ultimately give everyone....Patience! Fix the MB undercutting/bot fiasco and crafting/selling will be better, you fix gathering mindlessness and crafting difficulty will fix itself.

[Jojoya]

I would NEVER repost an item's price if it meant eating into my profit, and this would promote more INTELLIGENT pricing.

"Intelligent" pricing is never going to happen in a MMO where many players have no interest in being intelligent about what they sell. Also, not everyone values their time and effort the same way, nor does everyone invest the same effort in getting the items they sell (see quick ventures and how rapidly they ruin many markets). You'd still end up with arguments over what "intelligent" pricing would be.

I actually do adjust my listing prices when it's clear the item isn't going to sell at the price I have it listed for. No sale equals no profit. Sale equals profit. But I don't compulsively check my items multiple times a day. I tend to check every things about once a week unless it's a very new item and I'm not certain where the going market rate will end up.

As for your fee suggestion, it would be easy to avoid by removing the item then listing it again instead of changing the price.

What I would suggest would be replacing the current market tax (deducted when an item sells) with a listing fee that is charged when the item is listed or the price is adjusted. Make the fee equal to the Sell to Vendor price plus a small percentage (20% is way too hight, 3-5% like the current market tax would be reasonable).

If players have to pay the fee upfront instead of only after it sells, they're more likely to consider whether the item is worth listing at all. Maybe it would clear out a lot of the junk on the MB that's getting sold at or below sell to vendor price. I'd miss being able to make tens of thousands of gil on my new characters before they even do their first combat quest but it might lead to a healthier marketboard.

[Kaurhz]

Hey! It only took them close to 5 years to actually make scrip accessories even remotely viable in anything! /s