Possible Ideas to Address Hrothgar/Viera Hat Disparity?

[reivaxe]

Even in the state they are in viera was a wise choice. I don't know who would go crazy for bald female hrothgar. Already being quite masculine, they would be extremely unpopular.

You can not really assume they would look "masculine". We have art of them that directly compares them to a femroe and they look very much like they fall somewhere in the Viera/ Highlander build.

Also having 1 bald hair style isn't at all bad. Elezen have one even if I've only seen it like once in the past 2 years.

[DaulBan]

I would willingly accept not having hat access as a viera if I could at the very least be taller than any other race in the game. If my viera could be 8'6" and tower over the tallest of Elezen and Roe I would be satisfied.

[zeylos]

You can not really assume they would look "masculine". We have art of them that directly compares them to a femroe and they look very much like they fall somewhere in the Viera/ Highlander build.

Also having 1 bald hair style isn't at all bad. Elezen have one even if I've only seen it like once in the past 2 years.

I hadn't seen this before and I think ppl will be really happy if female hrothgar loo klike that, they arent too petiteo r cute and we can see theyre probs rather bestial

[SturmChurro]

You can not really assume they would look "masculine". We have art of them that directly compares them to a femroe and they look very much like they fall somewhere in the Viera/ Highlander build.

Also having 1 bald hair style isn't at all bad. Elezen have one even if I've only seen it like once in the past 2 years.

Looking at ronso in the past, they probably would be quite masculine, I doubt their animations would be very feminine either way. Also, the queen in that image looks quite broad. Funny thing though, her crown! A hat with ear holes!

In any case, I just think a bald style, considering their limitations (or at least if we were to base them on male limitations), and 2 styles per face, wouldn't be very popular. If hrothgar could switch between styles, sure. Couple that with the fact they are a beast race, a female one at that, so even less popular. Elezen can switch between styles, so they wouldn't be locked into being bald forever - unless they use fantasia. Imagine if one of the 2 styles on a desirable face was bald!

Side thought, I do find it odd just how absent female hrothgar are. Male viera can be explained away pretty easily due to the lore, but female hrothgar it just feels really forced. Making the hrothgar queen in Borzja.. a roe? From an optimistic standpoint, I think you could argue it's a good thing. They probably could have made a general model - at least for the queen - but they have held off. Meaning, maybe they just want their options to be open in the future, when one day they can bring us the missing genders. Not really relevant here, but the "hrothgar" queen got me thinking.

[reivaxe]

Looking at ronso in the past, they probably would be quite masculine, I doubt their animations would be very feminine either way.

You really shouldn't make assumptions about how they would be depicted based on nothing. That image is all we have to go off of for female HROTHGAR and though Ronso are the inspiration they are not 1:1 copies by any means. Nothing about their frame in that looks "masculine".

The only assumption I would make about their animation is that it would be expressive ... because even if they have a more humanized face if any of their faces are even house cat level "animal" in design the devs would have to rely on body language for emotes. (Expressive doesn't mean masculine either btw)

In any case, I just think a bald style, considering their limitations (or at least if we were to base them on male limitations), and 2 styles per face, wouldn't be very popular.

As I stated on the other page, I legit think Viera are working off the limits they would have given the females. As in, the females wouldn't have manes (as female lions don't have "manes") but would have reg hair and 1 of the 8 would be bald.

So basically it would be like how Female Highlanders have eyebrows but the men don't. Also, what is the topic of popularity coming from? You think they should only add something if you think it would be super popular? Popular with who, people who already play the game or people who play stuff like WoW? I can fall right back into my "if all they wanted was to push potions they coulda just made a 3rd Miqote clan wih fangs and cat eyes instead of Viera" stance. That's not really why you add races, you add them to fill a gap in the line up and service people who are underserviced. TBH it's really showing that Hrothgar are as popular as they are with all the limits they have. They are "Highlander popular" with such anti-customer effery, I'm sure if they tried to make females with the appeal and options they tend to go for they would have a respectable population as well.

Side thought, I do find it odd just how absent female hrothgar are.

That's covered in the last page as well, seems clear as day that it's cause Hrothgar were planned first. There is zero lore reason not to have a female Hrothgar and the game doesn't try to act like there is a reason.

[SturmChurro]

I think it would be quite insulting for male hrothgar players to be so limited, and their female counterparts not being so. Not that I'd want limitations like them on female hrothgar. I think the race as a whole would be better without any. Female highlanders having eyebrows, and female hrothgar being able to change hair at will, while males cannot without a fantasia is completely different. Frankly, I don't see your logic here. The reason male's are so limited is due to their custom heads. If female hrothgar were to have a similar shape - which I think they would - they would come out just the same as males, and SE would find something to put in place, like how they did male's fur patterns. I don't see any reason that female hrothgar would not have beast heads, like males do. Males even have a ronso head, so female would probably have one ronso head too; multiple custom heads.

If they were to come out with the missing genders, both male viera and female hrothgar, at this time, I think they would come out just as limited. Not that I actually see them happening anytime soon. I bring up popularity, because that's probably the reason they chose female viera over female hrothgar in the first place. Let's say SE did choose to make hrothgar first, they still chose to focus on viera rather than hrothgar. Despite their supposed popularity. Again, they are a male beast race. You can even take the small sample size of this forum, for that matter. The female hrothgar thread was never that popular. When people are referring to the missing genders what I see is male viera, not female hrothgar. SE has their beast race, there is no need for them to come out and complete the missing genders. Not a lot of motivation either, because they just aren't that popular. On top of that, I remember reading here that Yoshida referred to male viera as "weird" or something. At this point I wouldn't want them to bother with either missing genders anyway, even if they could maintain their patch schedule. If they can't alleviate some of these limitations, if male viera, female hrothgar were to come out just as limited, they might as well not come out at all, in my opinion.

[LisSquid]

I have been over the no hat thing for a while, but I have some very simple requests: Let Viera and Hrothgar use hairstyles we have unlocked in game and use AF hats. Not all hats and all hair, but headgear iconic to our jobs and hairstyles we have spent good time/gil to get. To be honest, when they said they were working on making some headgear work for them I had been certain AF sets were going to be included.

Not like red mage viera isn't kind of iconic to me or anything >>

[Lumivyory]

I would willingly accept not having hat access as a viera if I could at the very least be taller than any other race in the game. If my viera could be 8'6" and tower over the tallest of Elezen and Roe I would be satisfied.

Would that make sense though?
But either way I'd personally like the opposite. Before we knew what they'd look like I hoped that we'd have one clan that is tall and one that is short (like Feol Viera), especially with some earlier Viera concepts they had.
Was quite disappointed that I can't be a smol bun :'(
Screw the hats, give us more customization.

[zeylos]

Looking at ronso in the past, they probably would be quite masculine, I doubt their animations would be very feminine either way. Also, the queen in that image looks quite broad. Funny thing though, her crown! A hat with ear holes!

In any case, I just think a bald style, considering their limitations (or at least if we were to base them on male limitations), and 2 styles per face, wouldn't be very popular. If hrothgar could switch between styles, sure. Couple that with the fact they are a beast race, a female one at that, so even less popular. Elezen can switch between styles, so they wouldn't be locked into being bald forever - unless they use fantasia. Imagine if one of the 2 styles on a desirable face was bald!

Side thought, I do find it odd just how absent female hrothgar are. Male viera can be explained away pretty easily due to the lore, but female hrothgar it just feels really forced. Making the hrothgar queen in Borzja.. a roe? From an optimistic standpoint, I think you could argue it's a good thing. They probably could have made a general model - at least for the queen - but they have held off. Meaning, maybe they just want their options to be open in the future, when one day they can bring us the missing genders. Not really relevant here, but the "hrothgar" queen got me thinking.

I think it isnt unlikely we will see female hrotgar (or maybe male viera) in either 5.45/the last Bozja Front or 5.5 somewhere so they can tease it. Also I think female hrotgar and male viera will probs be either as limted as the current genders or just like any other race aka I higly doubt theyll go the route of giving female hrotgar special heas but no hairstyles or male viera exclusive hairstyles but not the majority

[reivaxe]

I think it would be quite insulting for male hrothgar players to be so limited, and their female counterparts not being so. Not that I'd want limitations like them on female hrothgar. I think the race as a whole would be better without any. Female highlanders having eyebrows, and female hrothgar being able to change hair at will, while males cannot without a fantasia is completely different.

Not different at all imo actually. Female highlanders were added to the game after males in ARR. They didn't force them to be browless like the males for a very simple reason ... they're female.

All you have to do is look at the game, the devs have shown time and time again that they are willing to do w/e to make females appealing as they know their playerbase and they're far more willing to get a experimental with males. That's why Highland dudes CAN look like hardened cartoonish 1920's criminals with their thiiick browless brow muscles yet the females just look like bombshells. It's why 1 of Male Elezen faces is an old man face and the 1 is a lil boi face were as the female elezen don't get that. Draggo bois can look like old scaley monsters and the females are forever pop stars.
They're far more willing to give dudes weird ish than females.

If you think that the devs taking to heart that "Male lions have manes" and blowing up the male Hrothgar hair over that concept would change how they treat females in this game then ... idk what to tell yeah. Like that picture shows us, Females don't have "manes" and there's no way they're just all bald if they're added. As it stands you can't make any assumption of than "No manes it seems". And if they have "no manes" then that leads into my theory that they wouldn't have the limitation that comes with "manes".


Also, you're basically making a catch 22 in the case of them adding the genders. "If they put in Viera males and Hrothgar females they would be listening to the fans ... but they can't listen to the fans and fix the things people have been very vocal about when they add them because that wouldn't be fair to these other fans". Nah, 1 gender doesn't always get the same treatment as the other.

If they add these 2 genders and actually have less limits on them (as in Viera males can wear reg hair and Hrothgar females actually have some way to change hair styles in game) they would be making people who want to play that gender happy. Simple as that. Female highlanders didn't change the fact that male highlanders still want eyebrows and they didn't suffer the same fate.