Are all BTN stupid or is it just on my server?

[Reinha]

If 500 Gil is too cheap then why aren't you buying out this highly needed item at a bargain price? Quickly, before someone else does.

[Liam_Harper]

I like all the economy "experts" that come out on threads like this when really it just boils down to salt over their item not selling for what they think is a "reasonable price".

-Crafting and gathering is faceroll easy.

-Bots are rampant.

-Supply massively outweighs demand. No, if there are 100 of an item being listed and 25 buyers a day, they will not all sell for 10k if everyone is patient, because the supply is being inflated by 75 every day. Basic math. I start with 0. I add 100 and minus 25, then repeat that over and over and expect to reach 0 if I'm patient? Seriously?

-It's a free player driven market. Doesn't matter if you think someone is stupid. It's a free market. There are no price guarantees you are entitled to. Ever. If you list an item you accept undercuts and risk are part of the game.

-You will always make gil if you keep multiple markets and keep trying.

[Sarevok_Thordin]

Massive undercutting is done to send a message like it's a game of chicken to see who is willing to stop to keep their eventual sale price vs a quick lower sale.

I've done massive undercuts to people who 1 gil undercut me to get them to sod off, otherwise they paid the price.

[Vahlnir]

Massive undercutting is done to send a message like it's a game of chicken to see who is willing to stop to keep their eventual sale price vs a quick lower sale.

I've done massive undercuts to people who 1 gil undercut me to get them to sod off, otherwise they paid the price.

I'm usually not the spiteful type. However, if days go by and my 6 retainers are still packed with inventory to sell I'm gonna cut the prices of everything. Massively. Usually upwards of 60-70%. And if I'm still being undercut then...I have no issue with dragging the price down further. I suppose it is fueled partially by spite, but I'm also extra motivated to get things out of my retainer inventory so I can put more stuff in. I have 6 retainers running ventures a good bit of the day. I need things gone. lol

[ReynTime]

Player undercutting doesn't cause that level of market crash. Its just bots who have been doing this in every server since mid Stormblood.
It's not going to change since SE pretends nothing is happening.

[tdb]

Don't bots usually undercut by 1 gil though? I don't know how they operate, but there's likely a limit to how often they can update the price of a single item. The marketboard imposes a delay of a couple seconds between searches, so if you're selling 100 items you can't update their prices more often than once every five minutes or so. And if the bots have to operate through the game UI (as opposed to hijacking the command stream) that slows them down even further. One bot undercutting by 1 gil every 10 minutes will lower the price of an item by 144 gil per day if no one buys it and there's at least one other bot competing with it. Maybe it would be plausible for the material prices to crash that way, but exarchic gear prices also crashed pretty hard. During the first hours I sold pieces for 2-3 mil. On the third day there was only a few items that were still selling for over a million. And in 10 days prices had fallen to 100k. There's no way that's all accountable to bots. The most ridiculous undercut I saw was someone posting an item for 1.6 million when the lowest before that was 3 million. And there was lots and lots of undercuts by 100-200k. What kind of bot does that?

[Vickii]

If 500 Gil is too cheap then why aren't you buying out this highly needed item at a bargain price? Quickly, before someone else does.

Because the problem is that people undercut it and it becomes far too big a quantity to buy for reselling purposes with the risk that someone else will just undercut it. I’m sure you were being sarcastic but let me explain to you in more detail as you don’t seem to understand.

For example let’s say the price is 5k and it’s selling maybe once every few hours. Then along comes you and you want a quick sell so you drop it to 3k.

If I catch it and know the market then I can buy at 3k and sell at 5k. Minimal risk.

But if someone else sees it and goes 2999 then a 2998 then a 2997 and then a 1000... then I have to spend double the original selling price in order to buy all this stock. And there’s nothing to say that it’s not going to be plummeted again and be worth my time.

If everyone just sticks to 5k then we would all make decent return. You hurt yourself as much as me advocating this.

[Vickii]

[QUOTE=Liam_Harper;5476523]I like all the economy "experts" that come out on threads like this when really it just boils down to salt over their item not selling for what they think is a "reasonable price".

I have a degree in economics. Perhaps not an expert but yeah, I know a bit more about markets than you’ve worked out playing FFXIV I should imagine.

[tdb]

For example let’s say the price is 5k and it’s selling maybe once every few hours. Then along comes you and you want a quick sell so you drop it to 3k.

If I catch it and know the market then I can buy at 3k and sell at 5k. Minimal risk.

But if someone else sees it and goes 2999 then a 2998 then a 2997 and then a 1000... then I have to spend double the original selling price in order to buy all this stock. And there’s nothing to say that it’s not going to be plummeted again and be worth my time.

You're pretty much confirming here that you believe people are listing items faster than they sell. If they were selling fast enough then there would be no risk as you'd be guaranteed to sell all of your stock.

If everyone just sticks to 5k then we would all make decent return. You hurt yourself as much as me advocating this.

Technically yes. But if new suppliers enter the market while both demand and price stays constant, one of two things has to happen:
1. Time to sale increases
2. Transaction size decreases
Either of these result in an individual supplier selling less items over the same period of time, so less money. If you were selling the items alone and making one sale per two hours, a competitor appearing would double that interval. Another ten competitors later and you would only be selling one item a day. Maybe you'd still be making a decent return per item but you'd be selling much less.

[Vickii]

You're pretty much confirming here that you believe people are listing items faster than they sell. If they were selling fast enough then there would be no risk as you'd be guaranteed to sell all of your stock.


Technically yes. But if new suppliers enter the market while both demand and price stays constant, one of two things has to happen:
1. Time to sale increases
2. Transaction size decreases
Either of these result in an individual supplier selling less items over the same period of time, so less money. If you were selling the items alone and making one sale per two hours, a competitor appearing would double that interval. Another ten competitors later and you would only be selling one item a day. Maybe you'd still be making a decent return per item but you'd be selling much less.

So firstly your examples and mine don’t match up. Both in my real time example and my latest one the item was selling at the higher price in a timely manner.

How fast is not fast enough? In my example does someone need 1000g so badly that theyre willing to give up 4000g for the sake of a couple of hours? Price should only come down when either a) it can’t be sold for that price or b) you urgently need the money.

Look at it on real world terms. Cyberpunk just released right.. shop 1 sells it at 49.99. Shop 2 sells it at 49.99. If shop 3 sells it at 10.00 wouldn’t you say they were stupid and illogical?

My argument is sound and based on fact. I don’t see why you would try to argue otherwise. There’s literally no benefit to cutting the price heavily while the item will sell at that higher price if you don’t urgently need Gil.