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  1. #61
    Player
    basketofseals's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    815
    Character
    Verrine Mercer
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 86
    Quote Originally Posted by Crushnight View Post

    Whm is subject to powercreep because of their fundemental principles that Whm cannot have any damage utility, Lillies as nice as they are now yet they still have the glaring flaw of are they needed, Lillies need a non heal option to spend on as they will never ever make healing always needed, downtime exists and as such lillies need an out for said downtime.
    If lilies ever got a damage equivalent they would NEVER be used for Afflatus Solus. I'm pretty against damage lilies.
    (4)

  2. #62
    Player
    QooEr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    835
    Character
    Qoo Er
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    could at least make the gauge give blood lilies when it fills if they overcap
    (4)

  3. #63
    Player
    KDSilver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,533
    Character
    Shiru Elysia
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mimilu View Post
    In Yoshi-P and the team's defense, they've learned since 2.0 not to say anything that isn't set in stone because the playerbase takes whatever they said and either treats it like dogma and backlashes when it either doesn't happen or happen in the way they wanted or criticizes the hell out of it before anything is finalized (not to say it isn't warranted/needed at times).
    IF they are planning major healer changes, they're going to keep quiet so they don't see any backlash.
    While this is a valid point indeed, this is also one of the problem.
    We barely get any responses at all. And when we somehow have some, they're out of touch and quickly passed.
    During live letters, Tank and mostly DPS got some discussion around their rework and thoughts.
    When in comes to healers, we get like, one sentence that comes from... i don't know where? I have some recent example.

    - pre 5.0 : Sch let their co-healer WHM/AST do all the work while they dps, so we gave them more direct heal => excuse me what ? A lot of the healing output came from some of SCH greatest oGCD, how can they say that
    - 5.15 Noct adjustment : Nocturnal AST struggle to heal so we ajusted some of its spells => Excuse me what ? While it's true nocturnal is not as fency as SCH (and this is a comparison that was pointed out about Noct.AST effiency), it was not to the point it was "hard" to heal with.

    How can go in a go in a good direction between these no response and false response comparing to the real state of healer ?
    (13)
    Last edited by KDSilver; 05-21-2020 at 07:46 PM.

  4. #64
    Player
    Crushnight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Jets Down
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by basketofseals View Post
    If lilies ever got a damage equivalent they would NEVER be used for Afflatus Solus. I'm pretty against damage lilies.
    I did specifically say non-heal meaning it could be a support skill or a damage one though I think a damage one is bad as your building up to one with the blood lily.

    Lily expendures could be 10% dmg reduction for 15s on a 1 min cd, 5% dmg up for 15s on a 2 min cd, etc, lillies just need an out for downtime as healing is not needed 100% of the time and never will be.

    Either that or make Misery 1200 potency so on par with 4x glares so that the afflatus skills never get to the point of just considered if I have to gcd heal buttons(like cure 1/benefic1/cure 2/benefic 2 have started being treated) because the way SE has been going with healers over the expansions, lily skills could very well end up there and I don't want that for Whm at all.
    (0)

  5. #65
    Player
    Ilyrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    607
    Character
    Ilyrian Silvermoon
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    'Fixing' healing would require a complete overhaul of game mechanics, the GCD and group compositions.
    (3)

  6. #66
    Player
    althenawhm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    193
    Character
    Althena Rolair
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Could just give WHMs a lily AoE shield
    (1)

  7. #67
    Player
    Grimoire-M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    987
    Character
    Grimoire Mogri
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 90
    Adding a Lily DPS skill wouldn’t hurt Lilies that much as long as the potency was less than 100 (Which turns them into a weaving option) but I would add a second blood Lily and lower the cost first, just to make it easier to align Misery with most raid cooldowns. The relative DPS gain from that would generally be outweighed by the GCD heals if they are useful.
    (0)

  8. #68
    Player Veis_Alveare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    678
    Character
    Veis Alve'are
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Were it that weak we'd just clip a Glare, kinda like the old SCH rule that unless you were double weaving Ruin II was dead to you. WHM basically never has to double weave so an instant that weak would serve no purpose.

    Plus when you consider the GCD heal that a Solace or Rapture can save down the line you'd just be raising the opportunity cost of a dps lily skill.

    It'd need to be pretty potent to be a good choice over potential effective healing, barring the rare situations where you really can't find anywhere to burn lillies like the start of e7.
    (2)

  9. #69
    Player
    Rinion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    97
    Character
    Lapiz Lazuli
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 80
    Now that they've changed the lily system wouldn't it make more sense to put the 1 lily cost back on divine benison and just put it on the GCD. When I was farming titania for the dragon as a whm, I found that I REALLY wanted a non healing lily and my friend suggested divine benison would work and that makes sense to me as well as it's a 30s CD which is how long it takes to build a lily so the only thing that would change would be that you couldn't have one at the start of the fight. =)
    (0)
    Last edited by Rinion; 11-05-2020 at 01:44 AM.

  10. #70
    Player
    YusiKha's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Azim Steppe
    Posts
    301
    Character
    Lost Skywatcher
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare View Post
    Were it that weak we'd just clip a Glare, kinda like the old SCH rule that unless you were double weaving Ruin II was dead to you. WHM basically never has to double weave so an instant that weak would serve no purpose.
    By less than 100, they meant >100 and the blood lily contribution.
    Afflatus Misery is 900/4 potency per GCD spent, so if a dps Afflatus skill has only 100 potency, it would break even with Glare. (900+3x100)/4 = 300
    (1)

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