FF14 is not made for hardcore players.

[Raikai]

I honestly feel that XIV has the right amount of casual x hardcore content. I am a casual myself, but I never felt the necessity of getting into the hardcore pve activities because the rest already feels very fulfilling.

The good thing that XIV brings is that the casual content is pretty numerous. There are a ton of activities to take part of as a casual player... And that doesn't mean content that expires fast. There are a lot of grinds that are easy, but just take time. Housing is also a huge time sink.

My only gripe with the current hardcore content (Memoria Misera) is that the dyeable job sets from Shadowbringers are locked behind many completions of that fight... While not impossible for me to take part of, doing Extremes is def. not my cup of tea.

[aCrowe]

I honestly feel that XIV has the right amount of casual x hardcore content. I am a casual myself, but I never felt the necessity of getting into the hardcore pve activities because the rest already feels very fulfilling.

The good thing that XIV brings is that the casual content is pretty numerous. There are a ton of activities to take part of as a casual player... And that doesn't mean content that expires fast. There are a lot of grinds that are easy, but just take time. Housing is also a huge time sink.

My only gripe with the current hardcore content (Memoria Misera) is that the dyeable job sets from Shadowbringers are locked behind many completions of that fight... While not impossible for me to take part of, doing Extremes is def. not my cup of tea.

I'm going to ask as politely as I can and it is up for discussion.

If you do not do the hardcore content, how can you dictate the amount of hardcore content that is in the game? There are a lot of people who want more than what we got. Not a lot more, but we can definitely use more.

[Granyala]

This is inherently incorrect.

Nope it is not. Muscle memory will not work as a healer, you need to adapt to the situation. Granted in today's dungeon w/o Cleric Stance, there isn'T much to adapt to and also no risk by going into DPS mode.

Do keep in mind that I made an academic argument. My main point is that community standards are subjective and flexible. Every player has differing ones.
It is indeed rare that a tank pulls single groups or that a healer does not DPS at all. So rare that I almost never encounter it anymore.

DPS players having crappy output happens all the time but it's a no-no to say anything because apparently holding DPS accountable is the work of Satan in this game. *chuckles* Hilarious when these "protected" DPS players then turn around and give any healer/tank flak for making a mistake.

My only gripe with the current hardcore content (Memoria Misera) is that the dyeable job sets from Shadowbringers are locked behind many completions of that fight... While not impossible for me to take part of, doing Extremes is def. not my cup of tea.

Yeah... that was a lame design decision. Absolutely. I still want the dyable DNC gear but since I retired from raiding I can't be arsed to wipe around with randoms and subject myself to all the associated drama. I did go in with friends once and we got the boss down to like 5%. I would not rate it's difficulty as "hardcore".
Definitely a lot easier than any savage I have done.

[linayar]

why bring your unexperienced self into the dungeon and waste peoples time because you are too anxious to play up to what is I believe standard now.

Because dungeon is designed to be clearable by first timers, often even without needing to wipe. If you don't want to deal with inexperienced people, you should find people with experience to play with and don't dictate that random players have to be experienced in order to queue.

[Darsien]

I see no one has answered my question of "why is this selfishness acceptable?" Either by ignorance or fear of it, the answer has not been given. As I've grown bored of reading the same responses given again and again, I'll answer the question for those of you who have failed to do so. But first, we need to identify what the selfishness is in this case. It is very simple.

Entitlement.

Players in FFXIV tend to heavily gravitate towards the mentality of "I payed for the base game, I pay a monthly subscription, I deserve everything in the game." To an extent, I believe this is true. However, this general thought has developed and evolved. It is now "I payed... I deserve everything without effort." Of course, the people who subscribe to this evolution in selfishness will word it differently, more kindly. But these players feel that all content is theirs. They do not care about putting in an appropriate amount of effort. The do not care about any form of challenge or test of skill. I would also go so far as to say they fail to remember that the people they play with are people and not NPCs. Ever have a game criticize how you play it? Perhaps now you may understand how adults can react to advise so extremely poorly.

Within this entitlement, players do not feel the need to research, to improve. This is why parsers threaten them so. A demonstrable metric that shows them as not contributing, as providing evidence to support the claim of "lazy, improper play" and "failure to contribute" within the team environment that is most of FFXIV's interactable content? No, no. We cannot have that. But then this also explains clearly why some players feel the need to steal the time of others with their inconsiderate, lazy actions. They shall get their reward. They shall get it with time. It's just RNG how fast the run goes, right? Those 3, 7, or 23 other characters are just randomly generated. There's no control over the speed and effort needed, so why bother? The reward comes eventually. What is a few extra minutes? What is the effort of others to make up for one's personal failure? No one pays MY sub but me, so I should get the content in the way I want, damn all others.

The perfect example of this in action, curtesy of the Memoria Misera trial. Who else remembers the thread? I read it. Maybe participated against my better judgement. But remember the backlash? Players OFFENDED that they DARE be asked to do an EXTREME trial for their glamour. Who has time to learn to do it? To learn to play the game well enough to succeed? Pay no mind to their 200+ day /playtime. When met with challenge, the playerbase threw up their hands and complained instead of rising to it. They don't get their shiny things for free. I thank a few posters here for reminding me.

By free, I of course mean "at the expense of both the time and gameplay experiences of all others around them." Nothing is free. Because that's the entire deal, is it not? Entitled players don't see the effort others need to put in to make up for their actions. They just see the "Duty Complete" reward and feel they did their fair share. They succeeded. When the reality is their success was because of the efforts of others and not fully themselves. You'd think everyone would be sympathetic towards not doing this sort of thing because people who play FFXIV typically have a job to cover the sub expense, meaning that they would all have encountered one or more people who skated by, got an equal share with much less effort. A pity. Because they react the same way when they are asked to put in their share: with none whatsoever, with anger, and, sometimes, with violence.



So, the answer to the question is simple: People accept the selfishness because to refute it would be to admit to themselves that they are entitled and are harming others' gameplay experiences for their own personal gain. They'd rather defend their negative actions, often aggressively, than possibly admit they are wrong. It is why advise, no matter how kindly presented or benign, is met with poor reactions by many. It's why many feel the constant need to defend these actions with extreme examples, some of which can be found in this thread itself.

People would rather cause some degree of negativity and harm than accept that their actions are causing the harm and may be wrong. They would rather have apathy than empathy. The former is just easier. It exists outside of the game, too, so it's not "just a game" thing.

That is why the selfishness is acceptable to some. It is unacceptable to me and should be unacceptable to anyone who gives it the smallest bit of thought.



In FFXIV, we are all paired with random players. This is known and obvious. This means we all must make a choice: be a good random, via research of their role, job, and sometimes the content, or be a bad random. Asking others to "go back to x" or "make your own party" is just a red herring. A deflection. A deflection by those who refuse to accept that this is a choice they make, consciously or otherwise.



Food for thought, of course.

I look forward to the responses. If they are of the quality that I've already received, though, please do not feel offended when I don't address them. A few things to save some of you a bit of time:

Never played WoW, so I cannot go back.
I don't talk in dungeons because of the sheer aggression.
I'm behind an alt because my FC log book doesn't need additional comments.
Yes, I do put considerable thought into a video game. FFXIV is much more complex than stamp collecting, or other hobbies, so more effort is generally needed. It's called passion. Feel free to try it sometime.
Direct personal attacks mean I get to disregard your post and/or report it, so feel free.
You're allowed to disagree, but at least provide detail.
If this post upset you personally, don't waste a post venting towards me because I don't care. Instead, get a bit introspective and see if you need to make some changes.

[linayar]

I see no one has answered my question of "why is this selfishness acceptable?"

It has been answered: It is acceptable because it is irrelevant to the point of not becoming an issue for some.

[Veis_Alveare]

It has been answered: It is acceptable because it is irrelevant to the point of not becoming an issue for some.

Wow, way to go literally not addressing the question.

It isn't acceptable for many people and is therefore an issue.

Try again.

[linayar]

Wow, way to go literally not addressing the question.

It isn't acceptable for many people and is therefore an issue.

Try again.

Uh, no, if it is not acceptable to you, then you're not the one being asked the question.

[Veis_Alveare]

Uh, no, if it is not acceptable to you, then you're not the one being asked the question.

And if it is acceptable to you then why don't you explain why you believe it's fine to waste other people's time? You've given a non-answer.

It is selfish and entitled to do so, why aren't you bothered by that?

[linayar]

And if it is acceptable to you then why don't you explain why you believe it's fine to waste other people's time? You've given a non-answer.

It is selfish and entitled to do so, why aren't you bothered by that?

It is fine because it's irrelevant is a non-answer? So you think people have to care about this "issue" and can't be neutral about it?

When I queue into a duty, I don't set time expectation, so I don't consider it wasting time to not beat a dungeon as fast as possible.

That's why I will never like Mythic+ system that would put a timer on a run.