A PoC Scion please? There is so much untapped potential here.

[Amnmaat]

I'd rather not see skin tone used as a commodity for cheap point scoring.

Incorrect analogy. Marketing departments exist in almost every company for a reason, they're easily the most or second most important department. I've worked in them and things like these are heavily considered, to the point where the company's owner/CEOs have to approve review any marketing strategies. No, it's not a commodity, the correct you're looking for is marketing, including more dark skin characters will work to attract more dark skin customers, it's basic science.

I believe this worked out so well, a term was coined for it, "Get woke, go broke"

Never heard of it, sounds like some stormfront/4chan meme, I wouldn't be surprised; the place most walmart mass shooters come out of.

I also find it interesting you seem to be perfectly fine with race being treated like a commodity which lead sto things like tokenism.

That's not the purpose, you're attaching something completely unrelated. It's more to do with marketing than anything else.

[Nothv13]

Incorrect analogy. Marketing departments exist in almost every company for a reason, they're easily the most or second most important department. I've worked in them and things like these are heavily considered, to the point where the company's owner/CEOs have to approve review any marketing strategies. No, it's not a commodity, the correct you're looking for is marketing, including more dark skin characters will work to attract more dark skin customers, it's basic science.


Never heard of it, sounds like some stormfront/4chan meme, I wouldn't be surprised; the place most walmart mass shooters come out of.


That's not the purpose, you're attaching something completely unrelated. It's more to do with marketing than anything else.

It didn't originate on 4chan. It originated on youtube and twitter because of a streak of companies doing as you seem to insist works, and failing miserably. Hell, even the NBA has came out and stated they'd drop all the woke stuff next year because they found it hurting them.

Marketings entire purpose is to make money by selling a product. If they market a product and push race in in, they are making race a commodity and likely it is just token use of the race.

[Amnmaat]

It didn't originate on 4chan. It originated on youtube and twitter because of a streak of companies doing as you seem to insist works, and failing miserably. Hell, even the NBA has came out and stated they'd drop all the woke stuff next year because they found it hurting them.

Marketings entire purpose is to make money by selling a product. If they market a product and push race in in, they are making race a commodity and likely it is just token use of the race.

I don't think you understand what token means. You're using the word incorrectly. Furthermore, the want is for multiple dark skin characters to appear in the msq in future expansions and/or patches, not just 1. Adding dark skin characters is not pushing race in nor is it a commodity, it's understanding your consumer base and marketing to them.
What the sports leagues are doing is not the same that's suggested here. You're comparing apples to oranges. Fun fact, sports leagues where Black culture is the focus do better than those that don't.

[Iscah]

I can't speak for how it feels to be a minority, but if I was, I don't think I would appreciate seeing writers add diversity "so we can market it to X minority".

And aside of the idealist-vs-corporate approach, while I get that people who are X appreciate seeing characters that are X, I don't like the implication that those characters exist to appease or attract a particular audience, rather than simply being a character who is X because some people are X and that's a normal part of reality for everyone.

Saying you should add an X character for the sake of people who are X says, "everyone else, this character is not here for you." It risks driving a divide instead of just integrating them as characters.

This is not to say that characters shouldn't be X, but I just don't like that being given as the reason why they should be added.

[MilitaryVet123]

Apparently, representation is pandering, inclusion is tokenism, and having a more diverse cast is being too "woke".

[Nothv13]

I don't think you understand what token means. You're using the word incorrectly. Furthermore, the want is for multiple dark skin characters to appear in the msq in future expansions and/or patches, not just 1. Adding dark skin characters is not pushing race in nor is it a commodity, it's understanding your consumer base and marketing to them.
What the sports leagues are doing is not the same that's suggested here. You're comparing apples to oranges. Fun fact, sports leagues where Black culture is the focus do better than those that don't.

You don't know their consumer base. If their consumer base is at most 13% (if the percentage of blacks who play is the percentage of them in the US), is it really worth it? Further a token black character is essentially one that is added for the sake of diversity with little more than being black or acting black as their character. These are the types of characters that are typically added in these calls fro diversity. Raubahn for example is not token, in fact is his skin color plays no role in his actions and how people treat him. Instead it is all about where he is from, who he knows, and what he does.

I personally would be sickened by a company that would use race as a selling and marketing point. It is like they are saying my race is all that matters. And I'll say this, people who think that they need skin color like theirs in a game to feel represent are shallow and place too much emphasis on something that is literally surface deep.

The focus of leagues like the NBA and NFL before all the recent shit and their ratings drop was not black culture, in fact race played nothing in why most watched them. With them focusing more on race it just accelerated their ratings loss.

[Eloah]

Do people realize that since PoC is a catch-all term used to denote the "current" minority, that the MSQ has already included its PoC character in the form of G'raha Tia. Male Miqo'tes were the only race/gender combo that had no representation in the MSQ until Shadowbringers. This topic is actually getting a bit out of hand. We as the community have to remember that a different culture will have different "stereotypes". Remember Hancock; he's a stereotype, and one that Koji Fox admitted to.

You can't use the term PoC to mean a specific "color" when the term by default refers to multiple "colors". Technically, by the American "conotation" the whole game is filled with PoCs since it's an Asian game. On the other hand, people of European decent would be the PoC in an Asian setting. The world isn't as black and white as our small little bubble would have use believe. There is plenty of gray in the world.

[Seddrinth]

This is a great Japanese game with a great story. I hate seeing people trying to inject our American race mindset into it. When I consume a story, I never think this is a great story but they should have more black characters, or more white characters, or more asian characters. Looking for race is so archaic. I wish people would look beyond race and not care how many of which color is in a story, and just care about the quality of the story more.

[Amnmaat]

You don't know their consumer base. If their consumer base is at most 13% (if the percentage of blacks who play is the percentage of them in the US), is it really worth it?

This is the same government telling you that dying in a car crash is a corona death. I would not use government numbers; they have proven time and again to rarely tell the truth when it comes to numbers. As for the second part of your statement, if millions of potential customers aren't worth it then I don't know what to tell you. I do know which population is shrinking due to suicides and opioids though; we can go into that at length.

Further a token black character is essentially one that is added for the sake of diversity with little more than being black or acting black as their character. These are the types of characters that are typically added in these calls fro diversity.

That's not what tokenism is.
Tokenism has to do with adding 1 character that's different and stopping there. When adding multiple in a natural way that's no longer tokenism.

Raubahn for example is not token, in fact is his skin color plays no role in his actions and how people treat him. Instead it is all about where he is from, who he knows, and what he does.

Second time stating this, while that's true for you, for me Raubhan being dark skin enhances his character in the game.

I personally would be sickened by a company that would use race as a selling and marketing point. It is like they are saying my race is all that matters. And I'll say this, people who think that they need skin color like theirs in a game to feel represent are shallow and place too much emphasis on something that is literally surface deep.

Not scientifically correct, melanin has more function than just on the skin, I encourage you to do research on it.
Secondly, while you make it about about race, those of us see it as them appealing to our tastes. When I see a boring pizza from a restaurant and I suggest to them to add one with more flavor, that's not something to be sickened about, it's something good for them to contemplate. It's all about tastes, many people have different ones.

The focus of leagues like the NBA and NFL before all the recent shit and their ratings drop was not black culture, in fact race played nothing in why most watched them. With them focusing more on race it just accelerated their ratings loss.

Sports ratings could be dropping because of many factors: suicides, opioids, corona virus, loss of jobs. The mlb and hockey for example have been experiencing lower viewership than the NBA and NFL; you really have to put sports into context before you blame and entire race. At this point I'm not surprised at your attempts though.

I can't speak for how it feels to be a minority, but if I was, I don't think I would appreciate seeing writers add diversity "so we can market it to X minority".

And that's the issue at hand, some of you see the dynamic in the way that those like me don't see it as.
Adding more dark skin characters like Raubhan is adding more of what appeals to us. It has nothing to do with no quota or anything; the more dark skin characters the better.

And aside of the idealist-vs-corporate approach, while I get that people who are X appreciate seeing characters that are X, I don't like the implication that those characters exist to appease or attract a particular audience, rather than simply being a character who is X because some people are X and that's a normal part of reality for everyone.

Saying you should add an X character for the sake of people who are X says, "everyone else, this character is not here for you." It risks driving a divide instead of just integrating them as characters.

1. That's where you're misleading the conversation, it's not for the sake.
2. Just because they're dark skin doesn't mean they can't be part of the cast.

Code words:
Divide? Why would dark skin characters divide anyone?
Integrate? They wouldn't need to integrate, they would just be a character in the game.

This is not to say that characters shouldn't be X, but I just don't like that being given as the reason why they should be added.

By your reasoning there is no good way to add dark skin characters. If I am not correct, mind explaining how they could add a dark skin character in future expansions and/or patches?

This is a great Japanese game with a great story. I hate seeing people trying to inject our American race mindset into it. When I consume a story, I never think this is a great story but they should have more black characters, or more white characters, or more asian characters. Looking for race is so archaic. I wish people would look beyond race and not care how many of which color is in a story, and just care about the quality of the story more.

Interesting how a lot of these types of posts start with the word hate.
If skin color doesn't bother you that much why are you bothered to the point where hate is the emotion you feel when someone brings up that they'd like to see more dark skin characters in the game's story? It shouldn't bother you if you claim it doesn't change anything for you; or did you misspeak and it does?

Do people realize that since PoC is a catch-all term used to denote the "current" minority, that the MSQ has already included its PoC character in the form of G'raha Tia. Male Miqo'tes were the only race/gender combo that had no representation in the MSQ until Shadowbringers. This topic is actually getting a bit out of hand. We as the community have to remember that a different culture will have different "stereotypes". Remember Hancock; he's a stereotype, and one that Koji Fox admitted to.

You can't use the term PoC to mean a specific "color" when the term by default refers to multiple "colors". Technically, by the American "conotation" the whole game is filled with PoCs since it's an Asian game. On the other hand, people of European decent would be the PoC in an Asian setting. The world isn't as black and white as our small little bubble would have use believe. There is plenty of gray in the world.

No one's using PoC (an unrecognized term outside of the united states) except the OP.

[Jandor]

This thread was more fun when it was about the map.