Online store prices are outrageously high!

[linayar]

OP was complaining about Mog station being overpriced, comparing prices with other mmos is relevant and comparing is a simple way to prove or go against their point.

No, it's not, because they're not the competition. FFXIV's Online Store items are for your FFXIV characters. You cannot say that you won't buy the items in the Online Store and go to other game's store instead to buy items for your FFXIV characters. That's where the comparison fails.

So the only thing left to see is if enough people would buy those items at those prices. If there is enough people buying, then it's not overpriced. It's priced at whatever the market (of which it has a monopoly) dictates. Even if some of those people would say it's overpriced, if they're still paying for it when it's optional, then their wallet speaks louder than them.

[Krotoan]

Aside from not being relevant (or wholly true), none of that has anything to do with the point I made which was you don't need a majority to buy to keep a site like the Mog Station going. Nothing you say negates that. The majority do not (usually) dictate whether a site stays open or not. A small minority can do that quite easily. And because the site only sells virtual products, the costs are so much lower – again nothing you have said disproves that.

You don't need a majority, but you need a customer base worth supporting. Since the shop has it's own separate team the company wouldn't support them and continue their employment without covering costs and a profit at least. 25k a month will not do that.

I pointed out people buy from the Mog Station who openly acknowledge it's over-priced. How does your comment make any sense in reply to that? If someone openly admits they are over-paying for something who are you to tell them they aren't? You're literally telling people what they think now.

Saying "this is overpriced" and then BUYING it.. is admitting to yourself that it's worth the cost. If it really wasn't you wouldn't buy the thing. You don't NEED it, it's not essential in any way even to gameplay. No matter what people say, you talk with your wallet. Nobody actually buys something non-essential that they really believe is overpriced.

It's not an opinion. It simply is expensive for DLC. Just because you want something to be true, doesn't mean it is. There are thousands of games online with DLC. That's how people have an objective notion of what something costs.

By an average maybe, just because of sheer volume of microtransactional games there are out there. . But compared to similar games and utility it's around market price.

Actually it is you who has repeatedly demonstrated you cannot accept that what you are writing isn't true. I (and others) have replied directly to every point you have raised with specific examples that disprove your claims. Conversely, when you reply, you rarely reply directly to any point people make, you simply ignore everything that disproves what you want to believe and you keep trying to change the subject. Your opinions do not outrank the evidence of thousands (or millions) of specific global examples that prove the opposite of what you claim.

specific examples I've refuted that you refuse to acknowledge ala: "people say things are overpriced and so they are"

It doesn't matter what you compare. The concept applies to everything on the planet. FFXIV isn't a one-off exception. How does a world-wide concept of something like products being viewed as over-priced suddenly not exist in a niche field such as a video game you like?

Because just because something is a cash shop thing.. doesn't mean it equals every other cash shop thing ever in relative value and should be priced accordingly.

Ignoring the fact, you have no idea what the specific financial aspects of every SE division and website are, your comment doesn't relate to what I said and isn't even true.

If you keep *snip*ing my comment I cannot tell what you are replying to. However I have an idea of what the financial aspects of the company are as far as we've been informed. The cash shops profits fund FFXIV directly and are their own deal. They have their own team. Most of the rest of FFXIVs subscription profits just go to SE for them to utilize as they please.

You initially said that if a market supports prices, that means the items aren't over-priced. That was disproved with the Starbucks example which shows companies can have a reputation for selling over-priced goods while staying in business and making profit. When I gave you that example, instead of acknowledging that, you just tried to change the subject to ‘the market supporting the company’.

It was not disproved. All you say is "people say starbucks is overpriced but they still make money". This proves my point. People are saying one thing but doing another. You could say people have a negative view of starbucks prices and i would agree.. but people still PAY for the products, showing that the market supports the pricing and therefor the items are not overpriced to sell. People can say anything they want but unless people stop buying the products the prices will remain the same or go up.

Do you acknowledge now that companies can stay in business yet still have a reputation for selling over-priced goods? Or are you still claiming that if a company is in business, that means its products can’t be over-priced as the market is happy with them?

... A company can remain in business and people can say that something is overpriced. Sure. However no matter what people are commenting, if they're buying a product enough to support the company it is by definition not overpriced. I have a feeling to you "overpriced" means it feels like it costs too much. This is not correct. Overpriced is when somethings value to consumers is exceeded by it's price, especially in luxury products.

And even your new 'point' isn't valid. Many people in the market wait for a sale, many don't buy at all, many will buy less than they would otherwise and so on.

Yet the cash shop continues to turn a profit enough to fund expansion.

Plus many companies subsidise one part of their business with another. For example, in this day and age, many parts of companies run at a loss for one reason or another. The market has nothing to do with anything there.

Like console companies, yes. The consoles are sold at a loss because the other products that require the consoles bring them a lot of money. However we're talking about a division created solely to supplement development for the game. If they were running at a loss they would be counter to their original purpose.

Just because a company hasn't gone bust, doesn't mean their business model is good or right or couldn't be improved and just because a website has certain prices, doesn’t mean the market has determined that or everyone agrees with it.

I never said everyone agrees. I said the market supports it. It also has been around for several years and done nothing but be expanded.. so while good and bad are subjective, it can be said that the sales are enough for them to consider that business plan profitable.

Another example would be that some companies deliberately keep prices high to make items exclusive. There are many reasons why a company sells at specific prices – the market often has nothing to do with it.

such as?

Regarding SE, the indication here is that they don’t really care what the market thinks – otherwise they would have dropped a load of prices.

Nothing indicates that other than a few loud voices complaining that they think things should be cheaper. If a company maintains prices as well as expands its offerings, some of which are even more expensive, it would follow that unless they're fools, the earlier items sold well enough to make a case for the practices to continue and expand.

You aren't providing perspective. You’re just copying and pasting the same flawed arguments that were dealt with pages ago. Once again, if Starbucks rips you off for $6 for a drink, that doesn’t make paying $30 for a DLC video game graphic acceptable. They are both bad.

I am sorry I mentioned starbucks because you cannot seem to let that go. It was supposed to be just something people do that many could relate to. I came up with several other examples but you've absolutely latched onto that. Starbucks is charging 6 dollars a drink and people are willing to pay for it. You say this is "bad" but why do people continue to do it if it's so bad? They have plenty of similar competition. Or could it be that people are paying to make these things a certain way that they don't want to bother to learn or dont have time to or haven't found another company who can do it? Supply and demand sets pricing. Whining something is overpriced and continuing to buy it does nothing.

At this point, you’re just posting the same stuff repeatedly using slightly different words. Nothing is going to change. If something you said wasn’t accurate on page 14, people aren’t going to accept it on page 17, 20 or 108. Posting the same stuff is just going to get the same replies which makes for a low quality thread full of redundancy.

When people disagree, the point of an argument is to try to at least get the other side to understand your perspective. A lot of times this requires restating things in different ways so that maybe the message gets through. I understand your position pretty well: "If I think things cost too much, that means they are overpriced, regardless of what the market is actually supporting". Do you understand mine?

You wouldn't behave like this with a cereal company or a lawnmower company selling over-priced products. You have to ask yourself why you're doing it over a video game.

Behave like what? Again if something is truly overpriced people will not buy it. I don't have to defend 20 dollar a box cereal because nobody would buy it. The market is it's own indication.
You should ask yourself why you feel it's so important to tell everyone else that something is too expensive to you. People can decide for themselves whether something is worth the money spent on it.

[JamieRose]

Lol I can't believe this thread is still going. It's really simple. There is enough demand for the items at this price, otherwise they would be lower. SE has statistics on their own store, you don't. You don't NEED these items. If you want them that bad go get a job or something. QED

Exactly the kind of unhelpful post one expects from these forums. Doesn't advance the conversation and exists merely to insult people with a differing view point.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Exactly the kind of unhelpful post one expects from these forums. Doesn't advance the conversation and exists merely to insult people with a differing view point.

Or maybe it's necessary because you people still seem to think it's overpriced (while other posts have already proven it isn't) when it's a front for you wanting to have something and not having to make budget choices to get it.

The only kind of helpful posts you'd accept would be people agreeing with you. You haven't acknowledged any other post proving this isn't overpriced.

[Jojoya]

The only kind of helpful posts you'd accept would be people agreeing with you. You haven't acknowledged any other post proving this isn't overpriced.

Nothing has been proven on either side because "overpriced" subjective in the long run. What's a good value to me isn't necessarily a good value to you. What we both might agree is a good value may not be a good value to JamieRose. It comes down to how much we personally value an item and what our options are for obtaining similar items from other sources.

If someone doesn't like the price, they shouldn't buy. The world isn't going to come to a crashing halt because someone didn't buy something they never needed.

It's amazing how many people that live in societies driven by making money get upset when businesses want to make money.

[linayar]

Nothing has been proven on either side because "overpriced" subjective in the long run.

Of course it's subjective to each individual potential buyers, but if enough people think it's overpriced, then there will be an effect on the market as there won't be enough people buying. So it's objective to say that enough people don't think it's overpriced and that's proven by the fact that the online store continues to release new items for sale at the prices they offer.

[JTF-Taru]

You could say people have a negative view of starbucks prices and i would agree

*A company can remain in business and people can say that something is overpriced. Sure.

You've spent goodness knows how many posts denying the above – now after repeatedly asking you, you finally acknowledge these things? Wouldn't it have saved so much time and space just to say this in the first place?

Saying "this is overpriced" and then BUYING it.. is admitting to yourself that it's worth the cost. If it really wasn't you wouldn't buy the thing. You don't NEED it, it's not essential in any way even to gameplay. No matter what people say, you talk with your wallet. Nobody actually buys something non-essential that they really believe is overpriced.

Out of the giant wall of text you wrote, 95% of it was just the same copy and paste untruths and denials as before. So for this I just refer you to the answers I have already given.

However this specific comment above I felt was worth quoting here and replying to.

You're now openly declaring that:

“Nobody actually buys something non-essential that they really believe is overpriced.”

Really? Because you have such a person here – me. Only the other day I bought something utterly non essential thinking it was over-priced. Yet you're telling me to my face what I think and how I feel.

Once you start dictating to people how they think and feel, (especially when they've already told you the opposite is true), you've gone past any reasonable level of opinion and ventured into rabid fanboy territory.

People buy things all the time they think are over-priced. A Starbucks coffee, a pretty lampshade, a designer shirt, pretty much anything you can think of.

There must be billions of individual occasions when someone in the history of this planet bought something non essential thinking it was over-priced.

So I'll tell you what I'll do. How about I start a brand new thread entitled something like 'Hey guys – do you ever buy stuff you believe is over-priced?' (I'll make the first post Final Fantasy related so the thread doesn't get closed).

Let's give it one week.

If in that week we get one single person (in addition to me) post that they thought something was over-priced but bought it anyway, you have to delete your FFXIV account / your forum account and never play this game again. Deal?

According to you, no one is ever likely to say such a thing so think how stupid I will feel when in a week's time, no one at all has responded to the thread.

Shall we do it? Or are you done saying things so asinine, it makes people's heads hurt...?

[BlitzAceRush]

If someone says "This is overpriced" but then buys it, what they have told SE or any company is "This isn't overpriced" Even if they contacted the compay and then said "This is overpriced!" The company looks and sees they bought it and then thinks "So I guess we change nothing."

Customer: "Man this item is overpriced *buys* Yo SE lower this price it's too much!"
SE: "Um... you say that but you just bought it."
Customer: "Yeah, but it was too expensive, you should make it cheaper!"
SE: "But you'll buy it at that price though?"
Customer: "Well yes, I did just buy it, but it's overpriced and you should make it cheaper."
SE: So we should lower the price, even though you'll buy it anyway?"
Customer: "Yes!"
SE: "...."

I mean in this situation, why would they? The shop is obviously doing fine or they'd have to adjust, that fact they haven't means most are either:
A: Happy with the prices.
B: Indifferent to the prices.
C: Not happy but accepting of the prices
D: Unhappy and dislike the prices but decide to buy anyway.

From SE's perspective the store is fine, do I think some things could be cheaper? Sure, but I find the prices acceptable, obviously enough share that sentiment or really like doing to opposite of what they feel.

[Krotoan]

You've spent goodness knows how many posts denying the above – now after repeatedly asking you, you finally acknowledge these things? Wouldn't it have saved so much time and space just to say this in the first place?

People SAYING something is overpriced does not mean it is overpriced. Do you get that?

Out of the giant wall of text you wrote, 95% of it was just the same copy and paste untruths and denials as before. So for this I just refer you to the answers I have already given.

However this specific comment above I felt was worth quoting here and replying to.

You're now openly declaring that:

“Nobody actually buys something non-essential that they really believe is overpriced.”

Really? Because you have such a person here – me. Only the other day I bought something utterly non essential thinking it was over-priced. Yet you're telling me to my face what I think and how I feel.

Once you start dictating to people how they think and feel, (especially when they've already told you the opposite is true), you've gone past any reasonable level of opinion and ventured into rabid fanboy territory.

People buy things all the time they think are over-priced. A Starbucks coffee, a pretty lampshade, a designer shirt, pretty much anything you can think of.

There must be billions of individual occasions when someone in the history of this planet bought something non essential thinking it was over-priced.

And again you miss the point entirely. Simply declaring something is overpriced and then buying it is telling the market that it is fairly priced. You bought it. You found enough value in it that you decided to buy it. You personally may feel "man, I'm spending too much on this" but YOU STILL DID IT.

This is declaring to the world and to everyone else that regardless of what you say or argue , you believe the item is worth paying the money for.

So I'll tell you what I'll do. How about I start a brand new thread entitled something like 'Hey guys – do you ever buy stuff you believe is over-priced?' (I'll make the first post Final Fantasy related so the thread doesn't get closed).

Let's give it one week.

If in that week we get one single person (in addition to me) post that they thought something was over-priced but bought it anyway, you have to delete your FFXIV account / your forum account and never play this game again. Deal?

According to you, no one is ever likely to say such a thing so think how stupid I will feel when in a week's time, no one at all has responded to the thread.

Shall we do it? Or are you done saying things so asinine, it makes people's heads hurt...?

I'm here to post my opinion and to present facts, however unpleasant they may be for you to hear. The fact is no matter what you SAY, it's what you do that matters. Ask someone who is in marketing or any sort of pricing field. If the market accepts it and the item reaps a profitable return, it is not overpriced.

[JTF-Taru]

*snip*
Someone running a game company out of a basement in Kansas can charge less than the person running the game out of an office in Tokyo. Cost of living, office space, supplies, etc. is much less.

What you are doing here is making excuses for companies with high overheads charging more for their content. If you chose to have a plush office in an expensive area, that doesn't in any way mean I should pay £20 for something you should be selling for £5.

Your argument isn't then that the items aren't over-priced. It's admitting they ARE over-priced and you're saying we should understand why and just pay the money. No one who isn’t a serious fanboy is going to do that.

The arguments in the rest of your post have already been replied to and refuted multiple times. Check out the earlier posts.

*snip*

Something being over-priced has nothing to do with quitting the game or not. You claimed no one is allowed to compare things that aren't identical. I pointed out this isn’t true as every minute of every day, somewhere on this planet, people compare the prices of different things. Provably so, when you can go onto YouTube and literally see 1000s of videos of people comparing different things, often judging one to be worse value than the other.

So do you appreciate this simple notion yet or do we have another post of exactly the same denials to look forward to in response to this one?

Just because someone doesn't intend to quit FFXIV doesn't mean they cant compare. Comparisons provide good discussion points in general, it's a bit narrow minded to say you cant compare.

Yup – I’ve been telling linayar this for pages but he / she doesn’t listen to anyone who doesn’t agree. It’s just such a ridiculous, illogical (and of course narrow minded) thing to say – telling people they have no right to compare 2 things.

*snip*

Copy and paste here anything from my last post to you that was insulting. There isn’t anything. And it is perfectly fine to compare DLC from different genres or from companies with different business models. A simple piece of DLC has a base time and cost and requires the same people to make it no matter whether it's for a fighting game or an MMO. If the MMO company has a business model that requires them to over-charge for items to make a profit, again, all you're doing is admitting the items are over-priced, but you're demanding everyone accept that. You’re just rehashing tired old arguments that have no merit.