Will we ever go to this Alternate Future?

[ClaireFaye]

This was just some random thought that popped into my head after reading the latest story of Tales from the Shadows. Spoilers:

It's told of the original time line where the Black Rose killed the WOL and the Scions. Told from Biggs, the descendant of the Biggs that we know and love and how they are slowly trying to pull their world back from the brink. I couldn't help but wonder what it would be like if we ever travelled to the future to somehow aid the people there. I mean, if you think about it, we would be getting Elidibus and Emet-Selch back if they didn't die in that timeline so we could see them again? That would be awesome.

Now, I don't think this will ever happen, but hey, if they run out of ideas, then they could always think about this plan. I just think it would be cool to meet this Biggs and explore a post-apocalypse Eorzea. The feels alone would be so sad!

What do you all think? Is there potential in this timeline to get an expansion someday? I mean, time travel is possible?

[ThunderTopaz]

fairly certain that's a dying world and there wouldnt be much to explore honestly.
and even if there was, I dont see how we would be able to save it. The black rose messed up so many things in the timeline as well as so much time as passed that things like the main cities would probably have been pillaged and razed to the ground.

and as far as the acians go, they wouldnt come back because we essentially deleted them.

[Rosenstrauch]

I think it's very unlikely, for the same reason I think it's unlikely that we'll ever run into more fragments of Azem's soul or travel to other reflections: They've already explored the idea pretty well with Shadowbringers, and doing it a second time—whether we're traveling to a new world, the past or future, or a new timeline—would likely just tread the same ground over again. That said, I don't think it's completely out of the question.

And I have to say, the idea of dropping a line like "It's good to see you again, Hades" to Emet-Selch's face tickles my funny bone.

[Alleluia]

I think it's very unlikely, for the same reason I think it's unlikely that we'll ever run into more fragments of Azem's soul or travel to other reflections: They've already explored the idea pretty well with Shadowbringers, and doing it a second time—whether we're traveling to a new world, the past or future, or a new timeline—would likely just tread the same ground over again. That said, I don't think it's completely out of the question.

And I have to say, the idea of dropping a line like "It's good to see you again, Hades" to Emet-Selch's face tickles my funny bone.

I'm generally against the idea for the reasons you stated, too. But that interaction would almost make it worth it. Imagine the look on his face. (Logically, it might be a different face at that point, but they could keep him looking like Solus for rule of cool or something.)

[Cilia]

I doubt it. There'd be too few differences to make it really worth exploring; it's basically just a depopulated Eorzea trying to get back on its feet.

As for time traveling there... it's... complicated. Given we only exist in this future (Good Future), it's not so simple as just hopping in a time machine and going to that future (Bad Future). By messing with the (relative) past G'raha has made it impossible for us to observe the Bad Future, so short of some super complicated timey-wimey shenanigans I don't see us ever going there. If they want to go in that direction they'll write a way for it, but I'd rather not get into a mess of timelines and alternate realities. (Or rather more of a mess than we already have.)

[Iscah]

I don't think we know of anything with the power to cross the timelines.

As I understand it, Alexander's power is to move back and forth through time in a physical space. Alternate timelines may or may not form as a consequence of that time travel, but it is not actually within Alexander's power to do that or navigate the resulting multiple realities.

Meanwhile, Omega has power over the rift that lies between the shards, but whatever separates the timelines is a higher-order divide that would need even greater power to cross, if it's even possible.

I would rather they didn't go down that path, and simply leave it there utterly beyond our reach.

[Cilia]

I don't think we know of anything with the power to cross the timelines.

As I understand it, Alexander's power is to move back and forth through time in a physical space. Alternate timelines may or may not form as a consequence of that time travel, but it is not actually within Alexander's power to do that or navigate the resulting multiple realities.

Meanwhile, Omega has power over the rift that lies between the shards, but whatever separates the timelines is a higher-order divide that would need even greater power to cross, if it's even possible.

I would rather they didn't go down that path, and simply leave it there utterly beyond our reach.

The problem is that traveling back in time is fundamentally a one-way track.

In this scenario, we've got two futures: the original Bad Future where Varis used Black Rose, triggering the 8th Umbral Calamity, and the new Good Future, which G'raha made by traveling back in time from that same Bad Future and intervening. Since this "us" only exists in the Good Future, we lack the ability to perceive the Bad Future (that "us" died, after all). Any attempts to move forward in time will necessarily branch off of the Good Future, leaving us utterly unable to observe (and thus go to) the Bad Future. The only one who could conceivably do so is G'raha since he hails from that timeline, but he'd need a way to change which timeline he's observing and as an actor on the stage that's... no easy feat. Kinda what the Tycoon was needed for, at least in part.

I concur, leaving the Bad Future alone is for the best from a storytelling perspective. Involving it further will just make things even more of a headache than they already are (like G'raha being a walking paradox).

[Iscah]

Since this "us" only exists in the Good Future, we lack the ability to perceive the Bad Future (that "us" died, after all). Any attempts to move forward in time will necessarily branch off of the Good Future, leaving us utterly unable to observe (and thus go to) the Bad Future. The only one who could conceivably do so is G'raha since he hails from that timeline, but he'd need a way to change which timeline he's observing and as an actor on the stage that's... no easy feat.

While we're clearly in agreement that we should not visit the alternate timeline, I'm not following your logic as to why we cannot.

We don't lack the ability to perceive the bad future because we died in it, we cannot perceive it because we're not the "us" that came from that timeline. Even if they were alive, they are no longer functionally the same person and we can't somehow see what they see.

If we did somehow acquire the ability to visit the other timeline, it wouldn't matter if our other self is alive, dead, or anything inbetween because we aren't them. We'd be a different "instance" of the same base person, but not exactly the same or from the equivalent point in time.

Alternately, if you're arguing from the assumption that "we can't get to the bad future because we're not on the right track for it", that's true... but it's just as true for G'raha. His younger self hails from the other timeline originally but his actions have sent him onto the same "other track" that we are on as well, so that origin doesn't give him any advantage now.

[Cilia]

While we're clearly in agreement that we should not visit the alternate timeline, I'm not following your logic as to why we cannot.

We don't lack the ability to perceive the bad future because we died in it, we cannot perceive it because we're not the "us" that came from that timeline. Even if they were alive, they are no longer functionally the same person and we can't somehow see what they see.

If we did somehow acquire the ability to visit the other timeline, it wouldn't matter if our other self is alive, dead, or anything inbetween because we aren't them. We'd be a different "instance" of the same base person, but not exactly the same or from the equivalent point in time.

Alternately, if you're arguing from the assumption that "we can't get to the bad future because we're not on the right track for it", that's true... but it's just as true for G'raha. His younger self hails from the other timeline originally but his actions have sent him onto the same "other track" that we are on as well, so that origin doesn't give him any advantage now.

We can't perceive a present in which "we" do not exist; ergo any time traveling to the future will necessarily branch off from the present in which "we" do exist. Considering that, we can't visit the Bad Future without some... shenanigans. He does exist in the Bad Future so G'raha can in theory, but even if the conditions were right our limited ability to perceive time makes this prohibitively difficult if not impossible.

[Iscah]

We can't perceive a present in which "we" do not exist; ergo any time traveling to the future will necessarily branch off from the present in which "we" do exist. Considering that, we can't visit the Bad Future without some... shenanigans. He does exist in the Bad Future so G'raha can in theory, but even if the conditions were right our limited ability to perceive time makes this prohibitively difficult if not impossible.

Well no, we can't perceive something if we're not there. But going there would involve the "us who exists" travelling to the other timeline, therefore we would arrive there and perceive it for ourselves.

It doesn't matter if the "other us" is there because we aren't going into their body. We are taking our body to their world, whether they're there or not.

Meanwhile, a version of G'raha exists in the other timeline but it is not the same G'raha that would presumably be travelling alongside us. If we arrived prior to "future G'raha" departing to the First, "our G'raha" could come face-to-face with him and they would not be the same physical person.

Again, I don't see how the existance of the other G'raha in the other timeline makes it any more possible for ours to visit the other timeline. They are divided as if by physical space. It's just as hard for either of us to go there.