6.0 Predictions: Will it be Garlemald, Sharlayan, or Meracydia?

[Kesey]

Spoiler Alert: we aren't in Ivalice, so things there don't necessarily apply here.

Exactly what's going on with Zenos... isn't entirely clear. He claims to have had dreams of the Final Days since childhood, but has an artificial Echo. I'm not of the mind that he's an incarnation of Hythlodaeus for two reasons (it defeats the purpose of his character being the PC's photonegative and he'd be able to naturally use the Echo), and his demeanor is vastly different from what we've seen of Hythlodaeus. (Or rather Hythlodaeus' shade. But same diff, so far.)

I believe the literary term for Zenos and the WOL are foils.

[Draginhikari]

I believe the literary term for Zenos and the WOL are foils.

That correct, Zenos is kind of dark reflection of what the WoL would basically be without his/her empathy for others. As much as the WoL likes a good fight and a challenge, the Warrior of Light really doesn't like cruelty or manipulation to reach that particular goal whereas Zenos said himself, he would set the world on fire to do so.

[Riastrad]

Spoiler Alert: we aren't in Ivalice, so things there don't necessarily apply here.

You are somewhat correct. The region known as Ivalice no longer exists on Hydaelyn, but had existed as evidenced by the fact that the Orbonne Monastery resides in present day Golmore Jungle. Which means that the events happened in the history of XIV. We may no longer call it Ivalice, but we have been there and to the Necrohol of Mullonde (Tactics, Vagrant Story), as well as to Rabanastre (FFXII). Jenomis has in his employ a Dramaturge that will recount the tale of the Zodiac Brave Story. While he states the it may not have been actual history, we find out that he was wrong. It is and was always what happened, they are canon. The Ascians are the Zodiac Braves, just as we are. We know they are because we just picked up their memories kept with their stones etched with constellations.

The various games that take place in Ivalice have also taken place in XIV and that is fact. Seeing as how XIV is based on forgotten history and is very much inclined to use older titles to flesh out the stories as was the case with the Crystal Tower raid. This isn't a new story. It never will be a new story. This game is a love letter to fans who stuck with the series through the decades.


Sword in hand, a Warrior clutches stone to breast.
In sword etched he his fading memories.
In stone, his tempered skill.
By sword attested, by stone revealed.
Their tale can now be told.


You clutch the crystal of Azem to your breast and wish upon it with all your might...


So, Fandaniel/Hashmal acting the way he has been is nothing new. He literally wants Zenos to continue killing and creating discord just as his counterpart manipulated the events of the War of the Lions in Tactics. It is all part of a larger plan unseen by a fool who only wants blood and violence. Zenos is the perfect moron to fall for it.

[Jirah]

Since this is the final expansion revolving around zodiark and Hydalyn its 110% gonna be in Garleon territory. 6 Major areas and 2 hub towns all Garleon seems off and boring so Ill assume well go through Garlemald via Thavnair due to their peaceful relationship. which thanks to our new heads of state wont last that long since we still arent aware of thier intentions. Radz-at-hans has been talked about since ARR as this Desert "Aht Urhgan" inspired area known for thier exotic alchemists and Dancers and would love to go there.

Another big area is Hingashi, known to also have a good relationship with Garlemald, so much so they refused Doma's Offer of a pact twice. Being very isolationist besides there "small' Port town of Kugane which also has both thavnair and Garleon consulate. Something really big needs to happen in order for Hingashi to seek foreign aid but Hingashi hella far from ilsabard so i doubt we will hear from it in 6.0.

Bukyo and Radz-at-hans so far have the best credibility but something tells me well be going to some random ass ilsabard province rather than already established locales

[Veloran]

You are somewhat correct. The region known as Ivalice no longer exists on Hydaelyn, but had existed as evidenced by the fact that the Orbonne Monastery resides in present day Golmore Jungle. Which means that the events happened in the history of XIV. We may no longer call it Ivalice, but we have been there and to the Necrohol of Mullonde (Tactics, Vagrant Story), as well as to Rabanastre (FFXII). Jenomis has in his employ a Dramaturge that will recount the tale of the Zodiac Brave Story. While he states the it may not have been actual history, we find out that he was wrong. It is and was always what happened, they are canon. The Ascians are the Zodiac Braves, just as we are. We know they are because we just picked up their memories kept with their stones etched with constellations.

The various games that take place in Ivalice have also taken place in XIV and that is fact. Seeing as how XIV is based on forgotten history and is very much inclined to use older titles to flesh out the stories as was the case with the Crystal Tower raid. This isn't a new story. It never will be a new story. This game is a love letter to fans who stuck with the series through the decades.


Sword in hand, a Warrior clutches stone to breast.
In sword etched he his fading memories.
In stone, his tempered skill.
By sword attested, by stone revealed.
Their tale can now be told.


You clutch the crystal of Azem to your breast and wish upon it with all your might...


So, Fandaniel/Hashmal acting the way he has been is nothing new. He literally wants Zenos to continue killing and creating discord just as his counterpart manipulated the events of the War of the Lions in Tactics. It is all part of a larger plan unseen by a fool who only wants blood and violence. Zenos is the perfect moron to fall for it.

The events of XII and Tactics didn't LITERALLY happen in XIV's world, only a version of them did. For example, XIV's psuedo-Tactics happened thousands of years in the past while Rabanastre is a modern city in Dalmasca, in the XII/Tactics timeline it's precisely the opposite. We don't know how Ultima and the others are related to the Ascians, if at all.

[Rosenstrauch]

I don't understand why this myth that FF14 takes place in the same world as the Ivalice Alliance games continues to persist.

This is the world map of Final Fantasy Tactics. Note the following locations: Goug, Lesalia, and Mullonde.


This is the world map of Final Fantasy XII. Note the following locations: Rabanastre, Golmore Jungle, and Ridorana.


This is the map of Othard, a continent in the Far East in Final Fantasy XIV. Note the following locations: Rabanastre (labeled Dalmasca by mistake), Golmore Jungle (located east-south-east of Rabanastre), Orbonne Monastery (located at the basin of the river running through Golmore), Doma, The Burn, and the Azim Steppe.

The geography doesn't add up no matter how hard you try to force the pieces together.

Lesalia and Rabanastre are on entirely separate continents in the Ivalice Alliance games—the continent of Ordalia lies between them. They are further separated by hundreds of years of history, with Lesalia being the more modern of the two. In XIV, Lesalia is an ancient city buried far beneath Rabanastre's surface.

Goug is a landlocked city on a continental island near to Mullonde in Tactics. The Pharos of Ridorana in FFXII is on an island at the apparent eastern edge of the world—the waterfall extending from both sides of it is so huge that all that can be seen beyond it is clouds. The Pharos is otherwise surrounded by extensive ruins with similar architecture, suggesting that there used to be a city there. Goug in FFXIV is also a city on an island, but the island is barely large enough to hold the city itself, and it was abandoned long ago by the ancestors of the Garleans after a massive cataract opened in the ocean nearby. It was later repurposed by the people of Dalmasca to act as a lighthouse in order to warn traveling ships away from the region. Furthermore, in XII the Pharos of Ridorana is a long abandoned ancient ruin, whereas in XIV the Ridorana Lighthouse is only recently abandoned.

Golmore Jungle is on the continent of Kerwon in XII—south of the continent of Galtea, which is home to Dalmasca. Orbonne Monastery, meanwhile, is located in Lesalia in Tactics. None of these locations are remotely close to one another. Yet in XIV, all three of these locations are on the continent of Othard, and Orbonne Monastery is within Golmore Jungle, rather than in Lesalia. In fact, Orbonne Monastery is now east of Rabanastre, when as of Tactics it was far to the west, similar to how Goug and Ridorana went from "far west and far east of Dalmasca" to "south of Dalmasca". Finally, in Tactics Orbonne Monastery was built by the Church of Glabados, one of the key powers behind the War of the Lions. In XIV, Orbonne Monastery was already ancient during the War of the Lions with no record as to when or by whom it was constructed.

Then there's Mullonde. In Tactics, Mullonde is actually two locations: the Mullonde Holy Land, an island housing the headquarters of the Church of Glabados, and the Necrohol of Mullonde, which was driven under the ocean by the Cataclysm in the wake of Saint Ajora's execution by the Holy Ydoran Empire. But in XIV, Mullonde and the Necrohol of Mullonde are the same location: The ancient city of Mullonde. In XIV, Saint Ajora laid ruin to the city by summoning Ultima from beyond the rift—fearing Her power, his fellow Zodiac Braves sealed the city ruins away within another plane of reality just to contain Her.

Speaking of Saint Ajora, not even his story is a match across the Ivalice Alliance games and XIV. In the former, he was executed when he was just over 20 years old. Also, he may have actually been a woman—XII kinda fudged things in that regard. In XIV, Saint Ajora was one of the first Zodiac Braves, and led his fellow Braves in a war against the Holy Ydoran Empire that lasted 20 years, ending with the collapse of the Empire when Ajora died in the destruction of Mullonde. Unless he was leading them from the moment he popped out of his mother's womb, it's far more likely that this Ajora was in his late 30s/early 40s by the time he died.

And that lack of stories matching up pervades the entirety of the Return to Ivalice series. Basch and Noah are father and son, both in service to Garlemald, not twin brothers who fled their nation after it was conquered, with the former going to Dalmasca and the latter joining his conquerors and becoming a Judge. Ashelia and Rasler are fraternal twins, not husband and wife from two allied nations. Ba'Gamnan and his family are loyal Fusileers in service to the throne of Rabanastre, not amoral bounty hunters in service to the Empire. Fran is one of the leaders of a resistance group in Rabanastre, not a sky pirate, and the Empire they're rebelling against is Garlemald, not Archadia.

XIV's Return to Ivalice story line borrows a ton of names and story beats from the Ivalice Alliance games, that much is true. But it's all in homage. It's no more proof of cross-series continuity than the presence of FF1-6 bosses in FFIV: The After Years is proof that those worlds met annihilation at the hands of a rabbit-man made of mochi living in the core of a moon-sized spaceship.

[Riastrad]

The events of XII and Tactics didn't LITERALLY happen in XIV's world, only a version of them did. For example, XIV's psuedo-Tactics happened thousands of years in the past while Rabanastre is a modern city in Dalmasca, in the XII/Tactics timeline it's precisely the opposite. We don't know how Ultima and the others are related to the Ascians, if at all.

Of course it's not meant to be a 1 to 1 retelling of events, but Hashmal and Fandaniel are linked by not only title but by zodiac and constellation as well as how they operate. It's a fact that Hashmal used war to summon the Bloody Angel. It's fact that Fandaniel is fanning the flames of war between Garlemald and Eorzea for an "unknown" purpose. I mean really? Why would he build up Zenos? What would he get out of it? For someone who is overcome with joy once Elididbus died, why would he shackle himself to someone else? He's not a loyal yes man. He's a schemer who just caught his big chance to enact his own plan. Hijacking Zodiark and/or Hydaelyn? Now that's a prize any schemer would love to have.

The geography doesn't add up no matter how hard you try to force the pieces together.

As for the landmasses not looking the same? I'm sure rejoinings do a lot of damage to the face of entire continents. I mean, it's just two worlds melding into one another. Y'shtola even states that we wouldn't be able to find Amaurot in the Source due to all the calamities that have wiped it out. The buildings in the Tempest were nigh on unbreakable by any of our weapons or magics, but their source counter parts are long gone. So mixing and matching bits and pieces of worlds has probably changed entire swaths of landmasses. The third calamity was an earthquake, the sixth was a flood. Do I really need to point out the changes either of those world spanning apocalyptic events could have caused to continents?

Again, this game uses bits and pieces from all of the various FF titles (and a few other Square-Enix's Ips) to flesh out stories. Why would they use the name Fandaniel, who is again linked by so many different pieces of lore and trivia and not also some of the story beats? When does coincidence become something more around here?

We could go on and on about it, and I am thrilled that we probably will, but I simply cannot separate these two characters when in all regards they seem to use the same methods in both games they are in (when they aren't being used as aspects for summoning purposes). Start a war, fan the flames, make a sacrifice and boom. A long shot plan has just become reality.




That which awaited was a fell beast... Ferocious. Ravenous. Remorseless. The beast shall kindle the flames of the apocalypse. Into it's domain shall the hero set forth, for the final chapter in the tale of this star...


It's Garlemald. How could it not be?

[Kesey]

That which awaited was a fell beast... Ferocious. Ravenous. Remorseless. The beast shall kindle the flames of the apocalypse. Into it's domain shall the hero set forth, for the final chapter in the tale of this star...


It's Garlemald. How could it not be?

Right...because Zodiark, a primal that can rewrite the laws of reality, who has been the end game of all Ascians for all of recorded time, whose very existence only has prolonged the apocalypse of the Ancients, whose prison (the moon) haunts every area of this game, can't be the "fell beast" (primal), "ferocious" (he can rewrite the laws of reality!!) "Ravenous" (a huge drain on the aether of the star), Remorseless (his followers are willing do ANYTHING to make him return), and it's domain is technically anywhere on the star (or the remaining shards)....

Nope...must be the empire that is nothing more than a pawn in the big game (sarcasm).

But in all seriousness, I'd like to see the empire someday, but the story could be placed in any location. I'm afraid this quote is referring to Zodiark and we can't glean more useful information from it other than to be foreboding about what is next. We still have no concrete clues about the location of 6.0.

The story beats we can expect are Zenos to help Fandaniel to fight us, and Fandaniel to help Zenos to get the 8th calamity bring back Zodiark. I believe every calamity coincides with a war, so I think we can anticipate the stalemate on the source to go to a "hot" war very quickly.

[BlitzAceRush]

One thing I was thinking about is given what we learn about the Echo is 5.1-5.3 it's very possible that Zenos dose have a real Echo but was never presented an opportunity to wake it up, given it lays dormant inside so many we now can't be sure if the "fake" really grants the Echo or is simply a man-made means of doing what Elidibus was doing on the first with the fake stare showers and Amerrout and simply waking up the dormant Echo is people.

Also not sure I buy that quote meaning Zodiark given up to this point we know nothing of the Primals mind on anything, we don't even know if he's "awake" in the same sense as Hydaelyn and has any thoughts on events currently, he could be evil, or indifferent or anything else really, we just don't know. So if my options are to apply that quote to someone I know nothing about vs the two people on screen of which it easily could be referring to either of them with what we know of them I'd pick either Zenos or Fandanile.

Honestly at this point given we kinda had our "Light vs Dark" final showdown with Us and Elidibus, if Zenos doesn't get his way and we don't have our Primal ultimate stand in battle with us and he acting for Zodiark and Hydaelyn that they subvert the whole thing, honestly us not fighting them would tie into the narrative they've been pushing as neither light nor dark, Zodiark or Hydaelyn being good or evil.

[Kesey]

One thing I was thinking about is given what we learn about the Echo is 5.1-5.3 it's very possible that Zenos dose have a real Echo but was never presented an opportunity to wake it up, given it lays dormant inside so many we now can't be sure if the "fake" really grants the Echo or is simply a man-made means of doing what Elidibus was doing on the first with the fake stare showers and Amerrout and simply waking up the dormant Echo is people.

Also not sure I buy that quote meaning Zodiark given up to this point we know nothing of the Primals mind on anything, we don't even know if he's "awake" in the same sense as Hydaelyn and has any thoughts on events currently, he could be evil, or indifferent or anything else really, we just don't know. So if my options are to apply that quote to someone I know nothing about vs the two people on screen of which it easily could be referring to either of them with what we know of them I'd pick either Zenos or Fandanile.

Honestly at this point given we kinda had our "Light vs Dark" final showdown with Us and Elidibus, if Zenos doesn't get his way and we don't have our Primal ultimate stand in battle with us and he acting for Zodiark and Hydaelyn that they subvert the whole thing, honestly us not fighting them would tie into the narrative they've been pushing as neither light nor dark, Zodiark or Hydaelyn being good or evil.

But we know that Zodiark's summoning is a delay to the apocalypse, not a means to stop it. This was made clear by Venat and other Ancients that summoned Hydaelyn. Furthermore, when we echo to the Crystal Exarch's past and see the "changed" future they are clearly in an apocalypse that comes after the 8th calamity because the WOL is already dead. The beast has to be Zodiark because he is the only thing synonymous world ending destruction.