why are people so resistant to constructive criticism about the game?

[MPK]

yOu dOnT pAy fOr mY sUb

[Nayout]

SE chooses how heavily to enforce their rules - which by the way cover EVERYTHING. You CAN be banned for anything and everything in this game, according to the ToS. It is better to just stay silent in this game. People can't just take some constructive criticism, or simply ignore it, they have to report the player who gave the said criticism. They know the GMs will ban players for giving it. SE bans for nonsense, so these players think they are in the right, like I said, their way is the right way.

It doesn't help that the community itself coddles these players, even when no reporting is going on.

People are arguing about criticism towards the game not towards the players.
I fully agree with you that the casual community for this game is a bad joke and I don't know how many times on Frontline I've had to read "I'm just coming for my exp" when someone tries to win.

But people are discussing the criticisms of the game that many times try to turn this game into another.

[SturmChurro]

People are arguing about criticism towards the game not towards the players.
I fully agree with you that the casual community for this game is a bad joke and I don't know how many times on Frontline I've had to read "I'm just coming for my exp" when someone tries to win.

But people are discussing the criticisms of the game that many times try to turn this game into another.

Oh yeah, I missed that (I skim quite often). I've experienced this myself before when I created a thread criticizing ARR in the past. This community acts like this game is sacred, or perfect. "Go play something else" is like their favorite line. To them it's better to not touch or change anything. So I probably agree with the OP's sentiment (still haven't read it).

[Hanaya]

Oh yeah, I missed that (I skim quite often). I've experienced this myself before when I created a thread criticizing ARR in the past. This community acts like this game is sacred, or perfect. "Go play something else" is like their favorite line. To them it's better to not touch or change anything. So I probably agree with the OP's sentiment (still haven't read it).

Yeah, this is very much what I meant. I made this post mostly because I was thinking about how I'd see a lot of new players in the ffxiv discord talking about how they didn't enjoy arr due to the amount of fetch quest bloat in it, and a lot of people would respond with stuff like "well, the story is the point of the game; if you don't like it, then maybe this game isn't for you," and "dev resources are limited, so they can't change it" and so on. It just seems strange to me, because these new players obviously liked the game, they just had issues with certain parts of it, and in hindsight it was pretty valid criticism if the devs ended up deciding to clean up arr.

Like, I do understand that there are limited resources for the production of this game, and I don't want to get the content I specifically want at the cost of someone else's enjoyment. I just wish that when someone makes a comment or starts a discussion about what they'd personally like to see from the game, people could politely explain why it wouldn't work, or explain why they don't think it would be a good idea, instead of just automatically assuming that it's coming from a place of toxicity and disregarding it.

[Skivvy]

People are arguing about criticism towards the game not towards the players.
I fully agree with you that the casual community for this game is a bad joke and I don't know how many times on Frontline I've had to read "I'm just coming for my exp" when someone tries to win.

But people are discussing the criticisms of the game that many times try to turn this game into another.

Not trying to be a contrarian intentionally, but I feel that the majority of criticisms of the game are typically well-deserved and not just trying to make XIV another game, but this of course is going to be rather subjective.

I can only speak for myself, but at times it's really hard to NOT compare all the little flaws and questionable choices in-game when you've seen similar systems implemented in far superior ways in their competition.

I'd like to think that most of us who bother posting do so because we want to see the game really shine, not because we get some sort of thrill by bashing a game that we all pay to play.

[Arillyn]

Yeah, this is very much what I meant. I made this post mostly because I was thinking about how I'd see a lot of new players in the ffxiv discord talking about how they didn't enjoy arr due to the amount of fetch quest bloat in it, and a lot of people would respond with stuff like "well, the story is the point of the game; if you don't like it, then maybe this game isn't for you," and "dev resources are limited, so they can't change it" and so on. It just seems strange to me, because these new players obviously liked the game, they just had issues with certain parts of it, and in hindsight it was pretty valid criticism if the devs ended up deciding to clean up arr.

Like, I do understand that there are limited resources for the production of this game, and I don't want to get the content I specifically want at the cost of someone else's enjoyment. I just wish that when someone makes a comment or starts a discussion about what they'd personally like to see from the game, people could politely explain why it wouldn't work, or explain why they don't think it would be a good idea, instead of just automatically assuming that it's coming from a place of toxicity and disregarding it.

Well SE did take some bloat out of ARR this last patch, which I think is fine. There was a lot of running around that didn't really need to be there anymore.

As for people saying go play another game - that's probably because within the last year or so there have been a LOT of new people come to the game (which is good) but there have been a fair amount of those new people that have also said (to paraphrase) "I don't like the story. I don't want to do it. It should all be optional and SE should change it and let me just do the stuff I want to do. They should make FFXIV like (insert random MMO name here)." And the story is a fundamental design of the game. And people who enjoy the fundamental game design are most likely tired of new people coming in and complaining about it and wanting the fundamental game design changed to be the same as the MMO they just left.

[Nayout]

Not trying to be a contrarian intentionally, but I feel that the majority of criticisms of the game are typically well-deserved and not just trying to make XIV another game, but this of course is going to be rather subjective.

I can only speak for myself, but at times it's really hard to NOT compare all the little flaws and questionable choices in-game when you've seen similar systems implemented in far superior ways in their competition.

I'd like to think that most of us who bother posting do so because we want to see the game really shine, not because we get some sort of thrill by bashing a game that we all pay to play.

This comment is what I mean. The game has a lot of problems stemming from having a fool in 1.0 but the talk that many have had here refers to this sort of thing.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5413464

[Skivvy]

This comment is what I mean. The game has a lot of problems stemming from having a fool in 1.0 but the talk that many have had here refers to this sort of thing.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5413464

I really, really wish I could remember what thread this was in, but awhile back I had read a couple of posts that had actually claimed ARR was built entirely independent of 1.0's coding. I've only seen it mentioned that one time, but at least one of the comments came from a more regular-poster here who generally has well-thought out posts, so it wasn't something I'd normally discredit right off the bat........................but that's all I can remember.

Super helpful, I know! BUT MAYBE someone with some insight will come along and be like "oh yes, here's the info!" or "nahhhh, that was proven to not be true". Maybe it was an April Fool's joke..who knows! I'd be really curious to find that thread again, but I wouldn't even know where to start my search.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I really, really wish I could remember what thread this was in, but awhile back I had read a couple of posts that had actually claimed ARR was built entirely independent of 1.0's coding. I've only seen it mentioned that one time, but at least one of the comments came from a more regular-poster here who generally has well-thought out posts, so it wasn't something I'd normally discredit right off the bat........................but that's all I can remember.

Super helpful, I know! BUT MAYBE someone with some insight will come along and be like "oh yes, here's the info!" or "nahhhh, that was proven to not be true". Maybe it was an April Fool's joke..who knows! I'd be really curious to find that thread again, but I wouldn't even know where to start my search.

There was an interview a long time ago where they talk about how 2.0 was rebuilt "from the ground up" (I just search for 2.0 rebuild ground up and got a couple hits referencing the old lodestone which no longer exists so I can't link the direct source)

However, they had to make sure 1.0 character data was compatible, so I'm sure there was some messy translation layers in there, making doing certain things more difficult that would otherwise not be.


They pretty much can't do anything that would break that 10 compatibility layer, or legacy characters might have tons of issues., if I had to guess. This is likely where the "spaghetti code" reference comes from. Not the engine or coding of arr+ itself, but the layer that translates 1.x data to 2.x

[Skivvy]

There was an interview a long time ago where they talk about how 2.0 was rebuilt "from the ground up"

However, they had to make sure 1.0 character data was compatible, so I'm sure there was some messy translation layers in there, making doing certain things more difficult that would otherwise not be.


They pretty much can't do anything that would break that 1 0 compatibility layer, or legacy characters might have tons of issues., if I had to guess.

Let me preface this by saying I have absolutely no coding/programming knowledge of any sort, and it will be evident in my next sentence. lol. But is what you're saying is that it would be possible to actually build ARR completely 'fresh' so to speak with new coding, but have to tweak things in a weird way to make it compatible with/transfer legacy characters properly?

The 1.0 coding gets blamed for many, many things by this community - but to my simple mind it doesn't seem like making legacy characters work in a new game, if that was their main hurdle, could have THAT far of a reach. But again, I know nothing in this field so I could be incredibly off-base here.


Just saw your edit, so if that's the case, I'm thinking there's a strong chance that's probably what the other thread had been talking about.