Quote Originally Posted by Penthea View Post
I see and pulling a pack on your own without saying anything is not griefing or toxic behaviour of any kind at all then? Even though it can cause a wipe? This is the act of some angel who only wants to bestow a wonderful combat experience upon us lesser beings who have no right to know what they want to do even if it affects the whole group? Right, sorry for misunderstanding. I'll go back in to my "your wish is my command" box.
Pulling extra mobs isn't inherently obstructive and is typically done because the person thinks the party is capable of handling the situation and it will increase the efficiency of the run. The intent isn't malicious, they're not doing it with the explicit purpose of harming someone else. Rather, that's what you're doing when you decide to wipe the party because you're upset.

And for the record, I'm not endorsing people pulling for the tank. I'm arguing against literal griefing being an acceptable response.

Quote Originally Posted by Penthea View Post
When I talk about pulling an extra pack...I literally mean exactly that regardless of what is being tanked already. I have experienced quite a few wipes because some dolt decided we had to play the way they wanted but we weren't deserving of any kind of warning. And I have seen this happen when the tank already pulled more than one pack. People who pull extra packs aren't all exceptionally sensible creatures who can't make a bad call. I've even see players with horrifically bad dps pull extra packs.
Sure, I've also seen misguided DPS do this. It doesn't mean that maliciously griefing the party is a justified response.

Quote Originally Posted by Penthea View Post
What I want from people isn't much. I just want someone to say "can you please pull more?" or say "I am going to pull more" instead of saying literally nothing, going off on their own to pull a pack, and expect people to just be okay with them forcing the group to deal with it. But apparently wanting basic manners is too much, and not wanting to give in to the whims of someone who acts as if the group exists only for their desires makes me a toxic person.
It's okay to dislike people doing this. It's okay to express that you don't like people doing this. It is not okay to intentionally grief the entire party because you're upset about it. If you do everything you can to recover the pull, and you still wipe, ask the DPS to stop or just initiate a votekick. Wanting 'basic manners' is fine. Griefing because someone doesn't have them is not fine. There are ways to address the situation without risking your account.

Quote Originally Posted by Penthea View Post
So in short in order to not be seen as toxic I have to be a doormat. Got it.
This is actually a widely held notion that is worthy of criticism on FFXIV, but I don't think it applies to this particular situation.