Can we just scrap the idea of Conjurer already?

[Coglin]

Wait a second. Did you even read what I said, Coglin?
Sure did, and it read to me that you want CNJ changed to have all elements as DD nukes again.
I didn't say anything about "rebuilding a class." The idea behind conjurer was a mage that commanded the elements.
Sure read like you did to me. Your post appeared to say you wanted them to adjust CNJ to have all elements as a DD nuke so it fit with your take on the lore.
That's not the case any more.
How do they not have comand ove rthe elements, just because they are not all DD nukes doesn't mean the do not command them. For example, they are the only class in the game that can shield you against them.
So I think we need to stop trying to have this two-fold deal where Conjurer's lore says we master the elements and Conjurer itself is just White Mage with Stone.
The class discription is certainly accurate to CNJ as they are now. Again, you appear to believe the only way to command an element is to use it as a DD ability. As of now they can cast earth, wind, fire, and lightening as DD spells, and are the only class that can shield against elemental attacks.
Ordinarily I appreciate your posts, Coglin, so please don't let me down with personal attacks about how I'm asking for a class redesign based around my expectations-
Interesting, I post my opinion, and it varies from yours so, you want to fly off the handle on the defensive at me and make accusatins of personal attacks? Okay wise guy, what did I say, specefically, that you interpereted as a personal insult or attack in any way?
-I'd much prefer a post about your expectations, and how they differ from mine. If you could link to the dev posts it would be greatly appreciated because not all of us have twenty-four hours a day to read every forum post,
Well wise arse, I don't have that kind of time either. I would love to link the post for you, but it sure reads to me that your making some inflamittory comment there with the 24 hr remark. So feel free to find it. I have 5 kids, and a wife 5 of which play this game, they tend to keep me updates, as I work 12 hour rotating swing shifts.
and while the Search function is there, it's a lot easier to make the 5,286th on the same topic and eat the flames that come with it. ^^
Its easier then to look through the titles of 2 pages of threads in the CNJ section? It took me only a few seconds to scroll down the first page and then to do the same on the second to find a few thread titles that tiped me off, but there are a few of the threads on the first page that vere heavily into this conversation. They are very helpfull to read reguardless, but several of them clear alot of this up. I am surprised you had not read them recently anyway.
Adjusting the lore would be easier than simply scrapping the entire thing, but it will be difficult to do.
Harder then redoing the class quest and redesigning the entire world and all its ones as well as implimenting a new client and graphics drive? why would they do all of that and not take a few minutes to change several lines of text for the sake of the overall lore?
The entire Gridania storyline largely depends on the Conjurers' abilities to communicate with the elementals, so even the minor adjustments we're talking about would seem to have major implications-
What do we have in game that has changes that makes you believe CNJ cannot communicate with the elements??
-Twin Adder quests, Main Story quests, sidequests, just the dialogue from random NPCs--it almost seems like it would be easier to make Conjurer (and the associated guild) not playable, and just change the name of the playable class.
Not sure I follow you here. The class is conjurer, not elementalist.

Mhmm green.

[Mychael]

Short Version: I honestly think that the whole idea behind Conjurer is gone, and that we should just let it go. While the lore is beautiful, it really doesn't sit with the current class anymore. However, I don't want this to degrade into another "OMG SE YOU SCREWED UP THE LORE" thread, or a QQ about how I miss the full elemental wheel. I just want to say that it's time for SE to cut their losses (the beautiful lore that was written) and give Conjurer a background that makes sense.

I want conjurers to get their DD back? Check the bolded sentences. It's been there from the beginning. There's one part of my OP that says I wish they'd left Conjurer and Thaumaturge alone. It's parenthetical and a smaller font size. I also said that I hope White Mage will only be one path that a Conjurer can choose and that I hoped their elemental side could still be embraced. Those were/are my hopes, and nothing more. They have absolutely nothing to do with what's going on. I included them to provide something with which I could contrast the reality that Conjurer is now just White Mage under a different name and with an off-topic storyline.

And while we don't have anything in-game that suggests Conjurers can no longer commune with the elementals, I bolded the parts of Gildrien's post that described conjurers.

And as for personal attacks, does this ring a bell? "Especially when your copy cating a copy cat who copied a copy cat by making the 5,286th thread on the same topic." It seems to have little/nothing to do with why my OP is/isn't valid.

I'd rather them start over than just edit a bit here and a bit there to make it fit, but if it can be pulled off without seeming inconsistent like it does now, more power to them.

[lenethlockheed]

Well im sure there saving all the lore changes for for 2.0. As they have stated that alot of the current quest will be revized for 2.0. But from what ive seen so far the ppl @ s.e dont seem to put alot of thought into things.

[Coglin]

Its a personal attack because I pointed out that you made a thread that was made time and time before?

Are you claiming this topic is original?

My personal opinion of you, or this thread and my disagreeance with you on the topic have nothing to do with my distaste for people remaking threads that have been remade because they either are too lazy to scroll down to add to the already existing conversation, or believe they are so special they deserve to make a new thread just to project there opinion. None the less, how is stating that which is fact me attacking you? We already have enough junk to wade through here to keep up with the threads we want. When posters needlessly add more clutter, I will complain. If you chose to take that as a personal attack based on your original post, thats your error not mine.

Well im sure there saving all the lore changes for for 2.0. As they have stated that alot of the current quest will be revized for 2.0. But from what ive seen so far the ppl @ s.e dont seem to put alot of thought into things.

I also tried to inform him of this, and he threw some wierd comment at me about being on here 24/7 or some derogitory intended comment of that nature, then went on to ask me to link it for him (yeah, I know, real interesting methodology right?)

[Estellios]

Conjurers can still communicate with elementals without necessarily being able to use all the elements. Also like I've mentioned in other threads, CNJ having the natural/forest-y elements Wind, Earth, and (according to the devs) Water fits thematically and could be handwaved by having CNJs be trained in Gridania where those elements are most prevalent and the easiest to attune to. The biggest discrepency for me is the whole "defeat all 6 elementals" puzzle/battle which will probably be redone.

[elreed]

i agree here, for conjurers SE should change the lore about them and in my op. they shouldnt get any elemental attack, i would agree more with light for attack spells and when they become whm have a spell Holy and all the others that WHM had in other Final fantasy games. That would correct the path SE gave to conjurers now.

[auritribe]

Why can't we all just agree that the lore is completely broken right now relative to the gameplay and it needed to be done because the game tanked?

One step at a time, people...

[Mychael]

This is probably my fault for naming this thread as I did, but I was not ever tying to say to fix it pre-2.0.

What I was trying to say was that, rather than stretching the idea and letting it "slide by"--which, admittedly, it does right now because of earth/wind/water--I'd like it better if they started over with something completely new.

[friedyams]

I don't really see too much inconsistency, as it says Conjurers use "elemental forces present in nature." From what I gather, that would include the more natural elements in the spellbook, like earth and wind (water would fit in really well too!). So thinking about it in that way, Conjurers getting Stone/ra, Aero/ra, Stoneskin and the like are pretty natural in that sense. Spells like Fire/Blizzard/Thunder are more manipulated elements, and thus seem left out for another class to use.

That's not to say that they don't have to rework some of the lore still, but it shouldn't be too big a difference. In any case, I wonder how THM's lore and background is, now that they have Fire/Blizzard/Thunder..

Also, jobs are meant to give classes some specialization and there may be other jobs for each class in the future. Cutting down Conjurer to mere pre-White Mage would just make adding another, future job a little more awkward to implement, especially if it may focus on the "natural" elemental side of Conjurer! (If so, I'd love to see Geomancer come from Conjurer, but that's a story saved for some other place/time)

[Eldaena]

Conjurers will probably be more than just a stepping stone to white mage. Both descriptions in the OP can coincide with each other and still make sense. They are in-tune with nature and with that same token, be in-tune with all living things, elemental or adventurer, for instance. (Things involving aether, perhaps?) They can defend themselves with that power and also give back and heal with that power. However, they aren't necessarily more powerful in either area. Which leaves it open to specialize into white mage and maybe a more offensive future job. You can say there are inconsistencies, but inconsistencies with what? Just what you expect Conjurer to be? Again, both descriptions can be of the same thing, from how I read it. It's the same for what people expect Thaumaturge to be too. There is no telling how/when SE will fill the gaps in these classes, but I'm sure they will. I don't think either class needs to be changed with what they do now, though. And I know, I, personally enjoyed the quests, storyline, and gameplay of Conjurer regardless of this.

P.S. I really like how conjurer received the nature based elements and thaumaturge received more of the destruction based elements. It's almost like lore without words to show you more of what they as classes are intended for.