This game needs to give us all our skills at lvl 50.

[Morningstar1337]

I'm of two minds about this. For one I feel like some jobs have a steeper learning curve compared to the likes of DNC, RDM and MNK. (BLM for example has a different rotation every 10 levels apprently). I also agree that giving them the tools they need before the cap would give them more time to practice. however at the same time I do think that without a carrot on the stick people might not seethe a point to carry their jobs to the cap.

Therefore I would propose the following

1. Ensure every job as the basic attacks before Satasha, which in this case would be single target skills an AoE. Regardless of Role.
2. From there use the 18-50 gap to weave in all the job mechanics. that way as opposed to a handful of jobs knowing what to do early on, all jobs know what to do and can therefore practice.
   1. For example have BLM learn the Enochean package by 50.
   2. Another example would be SMN trances, I'd add a third one for Ratkapaska to explain the mechanics and tide them until until Bahamut time. Being a bridge from using your own Egis to create a demi into using the external aether to created the other two demis.
   3. Other such mechanics would be Ninki, Requiscast, Eye of the Dragon, Soul Gauge, Esprit (I mentioned DNC has a consistent rotation, but that doens't mean there there isn't a mechanic that could be learned earlier) and Lillies
3. All further additions would be used as natural extensions of their mechanics a la RDM's Verholy/Verflare/Scorch (as opposed to brand new mechanics like say Enochean and Trances). Not essential pieces of the mechanic. BLM's Despair would fall into this, as well as QoL skills such as Iron Jaws and MNK's niche skills, and Raid utility like Battle Litany.
4. For Tanks I'd also add a few defensive Cooldowns to the 1-50 range, with the invuln being their capstone as it is currently.
5. For Healers, I would introduce one of their oGCD heals to the 1-30 range (AST already has that covered, WHM would get Tetra and SCH will get Lustrate at the same time they get Aetherflow) and also a Largresse-CD (Temperance, Fey Illumination, Synastry) in addition to Largresse itself in that range (as a role skill a la SB).
6. Resurrection Spells will be moved to 15 for all Jobs, I mention this because of RDM. Cure spells will likewise be placed at 2 (Again cuz RDM).
7. Most capstone abilities from 60 on would fill the point of 2. Ten Jin Chi and Benediction would be untouched for example, but Apex Arrow, Fire IV and Temperance will not.
8. From there its a "simple" matter of rebalencing for these skills...or not considering that they haven't balanced for later gear as CT and MSQ roulette demonstrates. And the less simple act of retconning the Class and Job questliens to make room for new developments

Of course it might be easier to have the skill squish be from1-60 instead of 1-50 as I mentioned in another thread.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

well i wouldn't say give them all at 50 that takes the point out of leveling up past 50...

However when you sync you should keep every 1 of your abilities... they should just get lower potency (abilities you already earned ) because with jobs like dancer q pops u into a level 30 dungeon you got like 2 abilities lol plus just because you enter a lower level zone doesn't make logical sense you magical forget everything your character has learned lol

[AnotherPerson]

Not the entire skillset no, I do think adding a bit more skills would be nice. Just not the entire skillset however, because there's no feeling of progression if that was the case. It also causes players to be more overwhelmed with too many skills to use without being introduced to them a bit slower. You can see this happening from SAM and GBN and that's not their full kit. Giving pre-lv 50 a couple more skills would be a good balance. It will make the kit feel a bit more complete than just a 1-2-3 rotation while & offset the simplicity and boredom, but still give a lot more job evolution and upgrades at later levels to slowly learn their job to the fullest.

[Morningstar1337]

well i wouldn't say give them all at 50 that takes the point out of leveling up past 50...

However when you sync you should keep every 1 of your abilities... they should just get lower potency (abilities you already earned ) because with jobs like dancer q pops u into a level 30 dungeon you got like 2 abilities lol plus just because you enter a lower level zone doesn't make logical sense you magical forget everything your character has learned lol

I can see why they opt to do that. It creates a dispairty between capped chaartcers and leveling oens that would be a nightmare to balance. And the "great" community (BTW) will not hesitate to treat those that don't have their skillset together before entering like dead wieght to be cut off. Its also likely why BLU is barred from DF.

Only way that would work is to just squish everything into 50 like OP suggested and used Traits exclusively (and even then that only mitigates that issue).

(Plus the DF content seems to have a flavor of "remembering" the instance as opposed to outright revisiting it)

[Barraind]

I cant really disagree with that in concept, though you do need -something- while leveling.

You should have almost your entire rotation by the time you hit 8-man content, if not the same skills as you have at level cap, something in that spot that fills the same role as your final rotation.


Its a little nonsense that some classes have significantly different rotations at every level break in a game that syncs you in even max level content.

Quite interested in seeing how the level squish and expansion concept goes,

It'll got fine if they even go back to at least their original alpha/beta designs, where scaling was significantly tapered and they had more gear that was hand-designed and not ilvl generated.

Early on in beta, they thought "man, people at level 39 really dont want to be upgrading from 4 stat points on minor armor pieces to 5 stat points" so they decided to go purely by ilvl scaling, jacked up stat-scaling per ilvl by 50% and hoooo boy, that wasnt a good idea for long-term success when you plan for 4 or 5 ilvl tier increases per expansion (and then they ended up having 7 or 8).

MMO designers plan stuff out as if everything theyre designing for at top end is always going to take years of investment and smoothly ramp into new content and dont think that in another 2 years, you're going to see a 20% increase to your average power level many, many, many times over and new players are just going to skip, at a minimum, half of that jump.

Or, to put it in different terms, in 4.0 at ilvl 300, top 5% samurai were pulling 3.3k dps (arguably this was due to both those fights having a bunch of stand around and wait). We're in the following expansion, with +200 ilvl and 550% higher dps (or slightly less with the downtime factored in).

[Goji1639]

I'm going to be blunt. Even with half the skills and complexities, the playerbase still fails to perform jobs to what I consider a minimum. Giving them even more options earlier won't change the issue of the game not teaching players the fundamentals that are required to hit that minimum. I can understand the sentiment, but it's not targeting what the issue actually is.

I don't really see how this is relevant to the topic. The players who want to learn will finally have the tools to do it as they level, even if they have to self teach; and for the rest nothing will change. It's a better system then leaving everyone with no idea how to play their class, and no way to learn, until 70+.

[Rongway]

Resurrection Spells will be moved to 15 for all Jobs, I mention this because of RDM. Cure spells will likewise be placed at 2 (Again cuz RDM).

I largely agree with your post but this one line in particular I recommend against. New RDMs should not be encouraged to think they are substitute healers. Their recovery spells come late enough that by the time they get Vercure it should be obvious that its purpose in non-solo content is a downtime Swiftcast.

just because you enter a lower level zone doesn't make logical sense you magical forget everything your character has learned lol

It's important to recognize when a gameplay concept should be decoupled from lore--that is, regardless of the quality of the decision, the devs' purpose for making the decision to restrict overleveled actions from dungeons is for gameplay reasons, not for lore reasons...but since we're trying to use lore to justify keeping overleveled actions when you sync down, the lore is that the first time you canonically enter a duty, you are at the appropriate level for that duty, and 99% of duty reruns are you only reliving the memory of your first time in that duty, not returning to that duty to do it again. So yes, from a lore standpoint it does make sense lorewise for you not to have any overleveled actions when you go in to a duty. In this case, if you want to justify keeping overleveled actions when you do a syncked duty, you should justify it strictly with gameplay-specific reasoning and not lore, since the lore supports the current paradigm.

[Limonia]

I don't think we should get all our skills at level 50, but jobs should still feel a little more towards complete at 50 than they feel now.

I like getting something new when leveling up. I like getting something that enhances the job, but I don't like getting something that drastically changes the rotation completely. So maybe give us the core rotations at level 50, and only enhance and improve them from there.

Things like that GNB has its 2nd combo at 60, but gets continuation and that draw ability later, things like that. The opposite is BLM, where when I'm level synced I'm often not sure which buttons to even press... ok, it's not THAT bad, but still.

[Arrius]

I give it a no. When you have to level through multiple expansions and get no new abilities along the way, then jobs would super boring.

Would be like WoW, where you get nothing from level 80 to 120 - It doesn't reward you with hitting the level cap.

Besides, most jobs build up upon the older expansions and should be used to solidify your handling of the abilities, then gradually give you the new ones to adjust yourself with them.

[Cetek14]

I agree. ShB is barely bearable in that aspect, 6.0 might kill this game. A lot of people bounce off the game because they play different job in each roulette.