The Case for Instanced Housing

[Videra]

So basically ESO housing.
XIV have unique thing for housing, its called neighbourhood. Killing even more social aspects of the MMO is bad idea.

I would sure love for someone to point out where the social aspect of this exists. Because I have never once had a social interaction in my time owning a goblet house by direct association with the fact I have it.

[HadesNight]

Sacrificing long term profits for short term gains is never good business. Services live and die on retention and vendor lock-in is a fantastic way to encourage your customers to look elsewhere.

That definitely sounds good on paper. Writing it like that, of course you have a point but it's not aligned with reality of this game. The only power FFXIV players have is to vote with their wallets and the few people that actually leave the game (if any) over housing are quickly replaced with new subs. Despite how annoyed people are with housing, or viera and hrotgar being half finished, or not having enough inventory, or omg mogstation and paying for retainers, etc. etc. Players have not traditionally voted with their wallets on any major unified issue. SEs model was created when the game was smaller and they know they have to do something to fix it. Housing was side content. I literally have no clue when it became popular but it really wasn't something people as a whole cared about even 2 years ago.

Plus, I think (not saying you think this specifically) it's foolish for those that believe SE is trying to maliciously keep their subs and money with housing. It's a bad system but I don't think it was created as a way to keep people playing. As noted housing was literally not important 2 years ago to the majority of people and that's from living on original Aether in NA and each server used to have tons of empty plots at min deval. Shirogane really kicked up housing a notch for sure. So this current system was built in a way where since housing wasn't that important, and people could afford to just pick up another small for cheap if they came back, it wasn't that harmful to lose your plot and that allowed others to get it if needed.

This isn't SE sacrificing long term... this is a housing situation that no longer can be sustained because the game got much bigger than they hoped. Additionally, I'd love to see what other MMO is like FFXIV. You can get elements of FFXIV in other games and other games do them better but this story centric casual MMO is something special. People can leave but it's not the same. I tried WoW recently and ESO and Terra and nah...

I'd be super SUPER impressed if people actually left the game over a unified issue. But I don't see it happening.

You literally rephrased what I said.
>not very smart idea from business perspective.
To make housing for everyone, that what I meant.

Np then, it's not written in a way that conveyed that. But in that case I agree with you!

[Packetdancer]

I would sure love for someone to point out where the social aspect of this exists. Because I have never once had a social interaction in my time owning a goblet house by direct association with the fact I have it.

It may vary from world to world.

I've been lucky with my house, inasmuch as a couple of my neighbors have similar play-times as I do, and I see them around. (They brought me housewarming gifts when I moved in! I have run roulettes with one of them.) I have a nice sitting area in my yard and I've found some of my neighbors chilling there before when I pop in. Several of my friends and I have chilled in the little cafe that one of my neighbors put together when we're waiting on a queue or on one more person to get online, etc. There's also an FC whose house is near my FC's house, and where folks from my FC bump into folks from that one at the marketboard outside our house; you start to recognize each other's names and wave when you bump into each other outside of that neighborhood.

But I also know people whose housing neighborhoods are basically empty and they can run around the whole place and never encounter someone else. And I will admit that even in the ward where my house is, or where my FC's house is, it's not like there are throngs of crowds running around.

Still, I tend to think the issue isn't with the fact that housing isn't instanced, as I said before; I think there are actually benefits to having a physical neighborhood and your house having an actual presence, as opposed to the 'exist only in your own bubble' reality of wholly instanced housing. And it's honestly probably fine that the actual houses are something of a commodity and difficult to get, if you want to make them an achievement.

But, as I noted earlier in the thread, it is a huge problem that participation in several entire systems of the game is gated on owning a house. An FC without a house can't use the company workshop and thus can't do airships or submersibles. Without a house, you can't garden (and without gardening there are materials you cannot get which you need to make potentially desirable things). At that point, the scarcity isn't just "I can't have a house to decorate and play with", but "I am prevented entirely from participation in these game systems by this scarcity".

And that, SquareEnix really needs to fix.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Personally if they do choose to add instanced housing (Although technically all housing we have currently is instanced hence wards). It should be a new housing zone such as sea of clouds where it would be easily viable for someone to own their own personal little island in the sky with no neighbors.

[Shougun]

I would sure love for someone to point out where the social aspect of this exists. Because I have never once had a social interaction in my time owning a goblet house by direct association with the fact I have it.

I find the reasoning of 'but social' is also more annoying because you've housing systems which I'd argue were more social than FFXIV's but were also more instanced (the community for housing being a key part of that game due to the substantial quality and freedom they gave players in that system, like Wild Star). If not clear I'm agreeing with you lol . Just because it is instanced does not mean it wont be social, it can mean that, but it doesn't have to be that. Like for our system we could take our tagging system and put it into a roster that players can phonebook search, "I need a cafe that speaks E / J" -search-. Even being able to add things like weekly, monthly, bi-yearly, etc competitions to encourage it further, with benefit to a ranking sort of system and perhaps occasional lock outs so you don't get the place that won last week winning again this week (leaving possibility and hope for others). Heck if they really want it to be social add a housing roulette lol.

Beyond that the great consensus appears that housing is dead except for those who go out of their way to make it not dead, which is just about like saying the people who make it active would make it active- if you put it into a more customize-able world space they'd still keep it active. I visit housing about everyday (for the garden) and I see only one house with people outside maybe three to four times a month, to note if there is a group it's all part of the same FC of that house.. Meaning they'd have the same social level if they just had that space in an instanced area, because they're all coming to the same place anyways. Pinnacle of housing social for me is watching someone jump up and down on their chocobo stable, WOOO.. lol. Or all this is to say just because it's open doesn't mean it will be social either. Having neighborhoods for many people does nothing for social (as you said, as I've experienced, as many have experienced).

There are few truly unique features of FFXIV's neighborhoods like system, the greatest pro perhaps being a static designed environment with neighbors you don't get to really choose (though I feel that description doesn't even adequately describe what would best fit FF games, that description should be for a sandbox game or something not a ticket to ride themepark game). As just having people near you isn't even that unique because Wild Star was able to have every person get a house and have it have full instanced power and give players the ability to build in communities (like a neighborhood- not to say that game is the only example, just a decent example, also interesting example because the housing is one of the key things that kept it strong for so long as they readily miss designed other parts of the content to their audience). Many of the things people say our system does other systems can and have done before. . . There is very few things truly unique, maybe you can say what makes ours special is making people feel held hostage by their sub and if they unsub that they're going to be punished- but I'm not going to clap for that, that's some EA sort of stuff. I don't think SE did that on purpose to be honest, just a consequence of the system and their memory limitations, but if they did actually set it up specifically for the thought of locking people up in fear of losing their progress that would significantly damage my opinion of SE.. that's pretty poor behavior.

[AngelCheese77]

Unpopular opinion: I completely disagree with the ending sentiment here. Players that have been playing the game longer than you (hence grandfathered in), or are playing within the parameters that SE themselves set and defended, don't deserve to be punished. It's not their job to care about all the players in this game. It's a game, and so if the game allows it, then I think it's insane for players to witch hunt them and not have a constructive discourse with SE on house ownership.

<snip>

As recent as December 2019, a player bought 60 plots on Spriggan because "it was a dead world" at the time and then told on themselves to a GM asking if it was against TOS.

When some people bought their multiple homes, one house per player wasn't even a thing and their worlds were dead too. But now for example Aether is packed, it's an issue?? That doesn't make sense to me.

https://twitter.com/SakuyaMikami/sta...69752851730434
https://gyazo.com/adb0c0d2fd7364d01dd96d8f80ce704f

Despite them asking opening about it, and the rules that were put into place in 4.2, the GM confirmed "If the game systems in place are allowing you to keep and/or purchase multiple housing plots on the same account, then that means that you are able to possess those specific properties". I was mindblown when I read this. 60 plots and a GM confirmed it was ok.

So at this stage, yelling at other players because you're jealous of them is getting you nowhere. SE knows what systems they have in place. We need threads like this one that call on the benefits and solutions to fix our housing situation, rather than devolving into petty name calling because you're jealous.

People can right now in the moment buy more than one FC house easily. It's not their responsibility to care about your feelings because you can get an apartment/FC but don't want it.

I never said I was jealous. I really don't care about getting a house right now because the way SE did the housing just isn't worth fretting over for me. And it's cool to hear different opinions.

I guess it's the thought of a person having 60 houses (taking your example) and doing absolutely nothing with them (hypothetically as I don't know if the player in your example did). Those houses are just a gil sink for that player, when perhaps someone who would like a house could use it to make .. I dunno .. a place to make a small library with a shrine to their favorite character.

The MMOs I've played had instanced housing, both apartments and mansions (taking my example from EQ2) Everything looked the same on the outside, but focus on the inside was what mattered to us. Heck, people found ways to breakthrough the 'house' and do something neat outside of the area.

[kaynide]

Regarding the above grandfathering...Yeaaaah.. while technically, yes, the players didn’t do anything wrong in paper buying 60 or whatever houses, it sucks for others.

I’m of the mind that if they ever introduce instanced housing they immediately offer to “buyback” neighborhood houses from players for purchase price and from then on only sell neighborhoods houses to FCs.

It’s an unpopular opinion that I don’t think SqEx’d ever do, but I’m of the mind they just have to rip off the bandaid, grit teeth and move on.

I don’t expect this as it would hurt too many feelings. I guess an alternative would be to just make instanced houses that much better(More object limit, larger yard, etc) that people are legit choosing an inferior house but open to public (neighborhoods) or a better but private option.

[Melichoir]

Instanced housing = Apartments with a front yard.

Rather than tear down the system in place and screw over people who like things as they are, why not spend more time advocating for updating how apartments work?

As an example, create Tiered Apartments you pay for. Tier one - Current Apartment type: 100 Item placement. Tier 2- same size as a current cottage with upstairs and downstairs, 200 item placement. Tier 3 Apartment - Upstairs, downstairs, 300 Item Limit, and a "Balcony" area that can hold 10 outdoor items. Pricepoint could be 500k, 1 Mil, 2.5 Mil.

Same time, youd increase Housing sizing as promised - Cottage is 30/400 item ext/int, Medium is 40/600, and large is 60/800.

This pretty much gets you to solve both problems at the same time. Housing system remains in place with incentive to have a house (more item size + exterior customization + neighborhood) while giving people something that is instanced so if you want one but cant get a cottage, you can get something similar. Im more than confident that given this option, youll clear up 90% of housing complaints as people will just purchase T3 Apartments if they want a cottage like setup.

[Shougun]

Instanced housing = Apartments with a front yard.

Rather than tear down the system in place and screw over people who like things as they are, why not spend more time advocating for updating how apartments work?

As an example, create Tiered Apartments you pay for. Tier one - Current Apartment type: 100 Item placement. Tier 2- same size as a current cottage with upstairs and downstairs, 200 item placement. Tier 3 Apartment - Upstairs, downstairs, 300 Item Limit, and a "Balcony" area that can hold 10 outdoor items. Pricepoint could be 500k, 1 Mil, 2.5 Mil.

Same time, youd increase Housing sizing as promised - Cottage is 30/400 item ext/int, Medium is 40/600, and large is 60/800.

This pretty much gets you to solve both problems at the same time. Housing system remains in place with incentive to have a house (more item size + exterior customization + neighborhood) while giving people something that is instanced so if you want one but cant get a cottage, you can get something similar. Im more than confident that given this option, youll clear up 90% of housing complaints as people will just purchase T3 Apartments if they want a cottage like setup.

Except you don't have to screw over those who have a ward home and you don't have to hamstring people into the limitations of the ward system either.

OP's system, imo, is far more exciting than just an upgraded apartment. As I care nothing for SE's ward system, it provides only limitations to me. I'd much rather have my own personal space that I can have a sense of scale and massive progression potentials. Not only scale and progression but significantly more user friendly and broad, as well as being far more granular in possible presentation of mechanics making it a much smoother and approachable experience.

Simply give ward users the ability to own their tiny yard (tiny in comparison to many many other mmos) AND an actual personal pocket space. They get all the features of both worlds and people who don't care for the ward system can actually get something far better than wards instead of holding the entire system down to the ward's limitations.

To put it differently, rather than screwing people over because ward's are so limited- how about get everybody the ability to have far more. If not clear while I don't want any ward user to miss out on a feature, nor do I want to tear down the ward system as a whole, I also think the ward system is a terrible system for the type of game this is and one of FFXIV's biggest missteps that continue to exist, and the amount of potential creativity lost, loss of bonding to the world through a secondary character progression that acts as a throughput of your whole adventure across many job classes, corporate corrupt feelings that spawn from being held ransom of your sub, and even lost potential social ability, is what the ward system provides- negatives where they shouldn't be. Scarcity system that works wonders in an open world pvp sandbox like game placed into a game that is a ticket to ride themepark game. Noting just because it's instanced doesn't mean it wont be social, as far more instanced games like Wildstar proved, you can absolutely provide players the interest, tools, and social experience to make even instanced systems social (that the extended freedom and potential power will adding to that encouragement, beyond more straight forward things like how you could create your own neighborhoods even in an instanced system, or UI tools like a roster of houses and competitions).

Of course money being an obvious retort as more is most likely going to cost 'more', but I believe it's extremely silly for consumers to play accountant for a company with money most of us have difficulty fathoming, just seems like the perfect way to willingly shoot yourself in the foot as a consumer- while SE isn't EA if you train them you'll buy a pet rock for the price of a real pet they're going to start selling you a pet rock, while also playing accountant you'll be likely speaking from ignorance of whatever is actually going on in the background of that unique company's active sphere (unless someone is secretly working for SE and knows what's going on in the inside). Besides actively settling may actually convince them that's what people wanted, and so even if FFXIV will never change I'm not going to mislead them into thinking I believe the ward system was any good. As nearly everything it does 'well' a more powerful instanced system could do significantly better, even neighborhoods (with issue to having strangers for neighbors, though that too is probably possible in some way).

Final addition instanced housing being used in context of a system that can produce 1:1 to demand, whatever that demand is, if you want it then it exists. No scarcity. I know some people use more technical terms but I would argue the most colloquial is under the expectation that when it's needed it exists, that if it can't it's not a feature of the game but a technical limitation that would be preferred not to exist at all. (How most western MMOs describe and behave, though I like to refer to Wild Star as I found that one quite impressive).

[Skivvy]

Instanced housing = Apartments with a front yard.

Rather than tear down the system in place and screw over people who like things as they are, why not spend more time advocating for updating how apartments work?

As an example, create Tiered Apartments you pay for. Tier one - Current Apartment type: 100 Item placement. Tier 2- same size as a current cottage with upstairs and downstairs, 200 item placement. Tier 3 Apartment - Upstairs, downstairs, 300 Item Limit, and a "Balcony" area that can hold 10 outdoor items. Pricepoint could be 500k, 1 Mil, 2.5 Mil.

Same time, youd increase Housing sizing as promised - Cottage is 30/400 item ext/int, Medium is 40/600, and large is 60/800.

This pretty much gets you to solve both problems at the same time. Housing system remains in place with incentive to have a house (more item size + exterior customization + neighborhood) while giving people something that is instanced so if you want one but cant get a cottage, you can get something similar. Im more than confident that given this option, youll clear up 90% of housing complaints as people will just purchase T3 Apartments if they want a cottage like setup.

At this point, XIV's apartments feel little more than a graphical update over XI's moghouse system (which now gives you access to a second story, patio, and a large gardening area). I would even go so far as to say that the gardening option in XI beats XIV. You can have 8 flowerpots, and then you have that large garden instance which gives you access to 3 planters, and 5 gathering nodes.

I feel like SE really needs to look to other games for inspiration on how to approach instanced housing, as updating a system from an almost 20-year old game probably isn't the best. Instanced housing can be so much more than a basic rectangular interior with a small outdoor area.

Now, with that said, XIV is full of limitations on many things, and sadly I doubt SE will ever scrap housing as we know it (although I will always hold out hope). If they want to make apartments a proper housing option, they definitely need to make some updates. My starter list would be:

*Make apartments available to every character that wants one. Yes, some servers may still have some availlable, but many others do not.
*Add an independent garden system that everyone can access or allow garden options to match that of a house
*Add an independent workshop system that everyone can access, or allow this to be accessed via apartments
*Allow tenants to be added