Emet-Selch *Major Spoilers*

[TyrTry]

That's because of the sob story. All story writers recycle old ideas, because it's easier than coming up with anything new. EVERYONE does it but it's like it's like a national requirement to write any story in Japan. Like you have a sob story = you are beyond reproach, you can't be held accountable and you should not be punished because then the "hero" becomes what they hate and all that BS. People talk about them being "relatable" but come on, that makes no sense and is compleately insane. It's pretty hilarious actually.

I'm not sure anybody ever stated that Emit shouldn't be held accountable; it was clear that his actions were unjust and you (the player) would have to put him down. He is relatable in the since that he leaves a choice of whether or not the player would do the same thing, had the roles been reversed. He is no less "recycled" that previous versions of Final Fantasy's roster, but just like some of the more famous villains, he certainly left a lasting impression.

Hell, I'm not sure he even hated the WoL at all; simply a powerful adversary that could ruin all that he had worked for. Think of Emit as a sort of foil character; someone who primarily shines the qualities of the protagonist (good or bad).

[TyrTry]

The sad truth is, its hard to write anything NEW that is Good. Even stretching your mind to come up with a different idea or approach a concept from a refreshing angle doesn't exactly mean it will be a Good idea, or resonate with a number of people into a successful idea. This is why very often people play it safe and just use familiar tropes, because something familiar will have a higher success rate then a new edgy idea that may not be that interesting to a larger group.
The best you can do is use a popular formula but change a few things around.

Plus; even though its seen as a lazy excuse (despite how true it is) there is no such thing as an original idea anymore, no matter what, every "new" idea has some level of influence from another idea. That or simply somebody around the world already thought of the idea.

This can really be boiled down to the reader and what they consider good or bad; for what is deemed "unoriginal" to us, is completely new to someone else. Stories recycle for a reason and some of the more famous archetypes will simply never disappear. You always want to consider the audience you are writing for. Remember that Fifty Shades was a thing...

[MirronTulaxia]

Snip

1. Countless people that are, ultimately, still a much lesser number than would have been lost by going with the plan. Every person who died from the chemical weapon, which if I recall right devastated at least half the population, means that it is still a net gain in life overall. As it also saved all the people of the First, and any other shards the Ascians would have claimed. Emet, again, does not have that going for him.

2. They... clearly did try and save the world. They tried every method possible. It isn't like they hit a bump in the road and thought "let's try and do the impossible". They tried every reasonable and likely many unreasonable steps to try to fix things before settling on their current plan.

3. Did 50% of them do that? We have Emet, and only him, as evidence for that. The guy who is not exactly an unbiased source. I'm not going to take him at his word when the guy has shown himself to be awful at being a sound judge on numerous other levels, that the guy could be lying or mistaken in how willing others were wouldn't surprise me, especially as he's Tempered.

4. The Limsans are not synonymous with the good guys, the Limsans did not try to wipe out all Sahagin, and the Ascians have literally wiped out many, many races by virtue of erasing shards. Every time they did that they committed genocide for many races. And on top of that even if they managed their goal of reuniting the shards they still intend on sacrificing whatever life is left to bring back the other Ascians. So yes, genocide.

5. Even if each rejoining was as smooth as possible every shard is incalculable life lost, and when all is said and done they'll sacrifice everyone remaining who isn't an Ascian.

6. Again, their end goal requires killing everyone. I can't even say that if there was a better plan they'd go for it because Emet and Elidibus think the other races should die for existing.

7. If the 14th was the hero then they likely are going to have a third plan if anything, not "well the Ascians were right all along". And even then, the original summoning of Zodiark isn't an issue. The issue is what they wanted to do with life on the planet.

8. Ramuh's accuracy as a person, especially given he is from ARR (many things have likely shifted a bit story wise since then internally), is not exactly absolute either.

9. I really have zero desire to see Zenos as the final boss of this arc, but sadly already accepting it. It'll easily be the worst part of the story if it happens.

[Tsaranoga]

Yes "shine" as another ghost needs to rise from their grave to save your weak ass.

Recycling old stuff is enough for people? Pfff... i guess the sob stories are supposed to make you feel something for the villain but that has never worked for me. It's relatable in that you can choose if you would exterminate an entire world full of creatures to bring back your people (who all are slaves to Zodiarc)? you're kidding, right? How many of you have had almost your entire race go extinct? Oh, wait...

At this point they could stop pretending and just do the good 'ol story like Yotsuyu, just give the villain boobs and it will be an instant success and everyone pretends to feel bad for her sob story, wiping their tears from their eyes with one hand (with their other hand in their pants). Heh.

[Jojoya]

No one would volunteer to kill themselves and merge with the Shard, huh? Did you forget that 50% of the Amaurotines did exactly that so that Zodiark could be summoned as the Will of the Planet and put things to rights by ending the Terminus event. Then 50%of the ones left sacrificed themselves so that Zodiark could bring back life to the saved planet. They weren't dragged kicking and screaming and thrown into a volcano, they chose it willingly.

But we don't know that they were truly willing. We just have Emet-Selch's twisted tempered word for it. They very well might have been unwilling, random victims of the Convocation's summoning. Certainly we get several small hints from talking to NPCs while working on the Amaurot portion of the 5.0 MSQ, not to mention the Venat holograms from 5.2, that not everyone supported the Convocation's plan.

And anyone who sacrificed themselves after Zodiark's summoning in the attempts to restore the planet could definitely be considered unwilling since they were all tempered at that point.

[Ramesses]

Uncle Emet is so stoked after reading a lot of the comments in this thread...

[Barraind]

But he was also complex and pretty darned interesting

He was laser focused on destroying the entirety of the universe and everyone in, on, around and near it as a sacrifice to a dark god his civilization had already performed several other blood rituals to.

He wasnt Loki, he was Mola Ram with a lot more poncing about and a lot less lava. He served his purpose. He tried to annihilate the universe, using us as a weapon to convince it to accept its fate. We said no. One side isnt walking away from that.

[Tsaranoga]

He was laser focused on destroying the entirety of the universe and everyone in, on, around and near it as a sacrifice to a dark god his civilization had already performed several other blood rituals to.

He wasnt Loki, he was Mola Ram with a lot more poncing about and a lot less lava. He served his purpose. He tried to annihilate the universe, using us as a weapon to convince it to accept its fate. We said no. One side isnt walking away from that.

Heh! Nice summing up and simplifying all this defending crazy peoples insanity (maybe he isn't crazy, just a slave to Zodiarc. Oh wait...) and crushing any of the excuses left for defend him and his ilk. "Complex" indeed. (No i don't think people will stop, of course).

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

I'll admit I have a bit of a soft spot for Minfilia I know she gets a lot of flack from people and she was always sorta in the background, but she was was very important. Though they could've done a better job showing just what she did rather than having her call us and come over to the Waking Sands every 5 minutes.

Agreed. Minfilia gets a lot of flak, and I think much of that can be attributed to the fact that the ARR story wasn't all that great, barring a few good sequences here and there. By the time the writers committed to improving the Scions as characters, they'd already long since decided to jettison Minfilia.

[Avidria]

But we don't know that they were truly willing. We just have Emet-Selch's twisted tempered word for it. They very well might have been unwilling, random victims of the Convocation's summoning. Certainly we get several small hints from talking to NPCs while working on the Amaurot portion of the 5.0 MSQ, not to mention the Venat holograms from 5.2, that not everyone supported the Convocation's plan.

And anyone who sacrificed themselves after Zodiark's summoning in the attempts to restore the planet could definitely be considered unwilling since they were all tempered at that point.

Not that it's more reliable, but I thought it was Hythlodaeus' shade that told us half the Amaurotine population sacrificed itself? And it's pretty much confirmed not everyone supported the plan because otherwise they wouldn't have broken off to summon Hydaelyn to prevent more sacrifice. There's a lot more than small hints of that dissent. Though yeah I can see more hints of the dissent starting earlier than that turning point.

And yeah that second round of sacrifice I could see the willingness being arguable, though it's likely some at least would have been willing because sacrifice one stopped the apocalypse and sacrifice two was to restore life to the planet.

I'm also not quite following the thread on the point being quoted that no one would volunteer to rejoin... The example from earlier was the WoD, who actually did exactly that because as I understood it they were manipulated into believing they could save their people's aether by rejoining with the source or something to that effect (somebody please let me know if that's wrong, I don't even know what cutscene to look for lol). So effectively they, as they saw it, were facing a similar situation to the Amaurotines anyway - absolute annihilation, or sacrifice in an attempt to prevent that. I mean that's a choice, but it's sure a pretty darn rough one.

The second example of this again being Ardbert willingly choosing to merge with the WoL to stop Emet-Selch. But again... while I'd call it a more noble sacrifice, his options weren't exactly a hundred page catalog. It was help us or watch us fail and die. But at least he made that choice at least of his own free will. Even if it was a trail of manipulation and tragedy and two hundred years of lacking purpose that led him to that position in the first place. It seems it's implied Hydaelyn left him "alive" expressly to help us, but he still could've chosen to say hey peace buddy, it's looking like you're gonna fail so I'm just gonna hope the rejoining saves everyone after all! It would make a bit less sense imo, but there was probably a nonzero chance he'd fail to help us when we needed it by choice or otherwise.