Next new job better be heals

[Claire_Pendragon]

I was really talking about the naming. They wont call it Chemist because of Alchemist; they'll likely draw on another source for naming like they did for Gunbreaker.

I also said that each job has been an iteration of a Tactics based job, I never said copy. Every single job weve gotten, besides Gunbreaker, has been a job that has been in Final Fantasy Tactics. There is much love for the series in the world, and even to the point of the creator of the lore and overseer of the Ivalcian lore has been invited to write the story for the Relic Quest.

Hence, it will not be called Chemist due to confliction with Alchemist, but it could share features and abilities with it, just under a different name i.e. Salvemaker (Bravely Default, or Rebooted Final Fantasy) or Cannoneer (Tactics A2, and a Ronso based job as well).

I feel you're still making connections where there arent any. Even by naming standards, we have Paladin instead of Knight, Black Mage instead of Wizard, White Mage instead of Priest, etc. The fact they have Lancer as the class, and not as the job, etc. FF14s base game was its own thing, and patch 1.23 was also its own thing. The names from FFT were based on prior FFs, with some changes of their own. The only reason we see so many jobs like Astro from FFT, is because it encompassed a lot of jobs, along with NPC unique jobs. (Theres also the fact the creators of the lore in FFT are technically different than those who made the lore in FFTA, as they were on the project, but had vastly different roles int he projects) Theres just a few small things referencing FFT, but its not even "most of them". What gives off the impression of it being "most of them" is purely coincidental.

But to the part about chemists name, I can definitely see that, as thats the sole reason we have "Paladin" instead of "Knight". So as to not conflict with "Dark Knight" in sounding too similar. (And in the case of FF4, "Knight" was a direct upgrade to "Dark Knight".)

lastly, I feel jobs heavily designed by yoshida were more akin to lineage 2 (His favorite MMO), like how DRK was the "Magic defense" tank. Rather than a superbolide styled tank, that sacs HP for better survival. Where SMN was a dot/pet class, rather than a burst AoE job. So I'd say that, plus FFXI, were the biggest influences, even if they are still different from those 2 sources, followed by small references to the rest of FF games, including some from FFT. Looking at BLU, and how he was too focused on making it mimic FF11, rather than FF5, so it became a limited job. (FFTAs BLU is amazing. "Damage MP" is pretty much single handedly the best ability on them, allowing them to soak up hits, as they use short range spells. Technically more tanky than the other melee jobs. I WISH he built BLU to be more like FFTAs over this limited BLU design)

[ty_taurus]

I was really talking about the naming. They wont call it Chemist because of Alchemist; they'll likely draw on another source for naming like they did for Gunbreaker.

I also said that each job has been an iteration of a Tactics based job, I never said copy. Every single job weve gotten, besides Gunbreaker, has been a job that has been in Final Fantasy Tactics. There is much love for the series in the world, and even to the point of the creator of the lore and overseer of the Ivalcian lore has been invited to write the story for the Relic Quest.

Hence, it will not be called Chemist due to confliction with Alchemist, but it could share features and abilities with it, just under a different name i.e. Salvemaker (Bravely Default, or Rebooted Final Fantasy) or Cannoneer (Tactics A2, and a Ronso based job as well).

I agree with this and have tried to mention it myself as well. Personally, I love the idea of naming the job "Apothecary."

[BasicBlake]

I was really talking about the naming. They wont call it Chemist because of Alchemist; they'll likely draw on another source for naming like they did for Gunbreaker.

I also said that each job has been an iteration of a Tactics based job, I never said copy. Every single job weve gotten, besides Gunbreaker, has been a job that has been in Final Fantasy Tactics. There is much love for the series in the world, and even to the point of the creator of the lore and overseer of the Ivalcian lore has been invited to write the story for the Relic Quest.

Hence, it will not be called Chemist due to confliction with Alchemist, but it could share features and abilities with it, just under a different name i.e. Salvemaker (Bravely Default, or Rebooted Final Fantasy) or Cannoneer (Tactics A2, and a Ronso based job as well).

I see what you are saying, but I guess I don't understand why you disagreed with me showing a character in XI that is a chemist healer, considering chemist was also in tactics, and technically a healer. I didn't mean we need to exactly copy it, it's showing that a chemist can be shown as a healer in an mmo.

[FoxCh40s]

I see what you are saying, but I guess I don't understand why you disagreed with me showing a character in XI that is a chemist healer, considering chemist was also in tactics, and technically a healer. I didn't mean we need to exactly copy it, it's showing that a chemist can be shown as a healer in an mmo.

It was more a general follow up to the conversation, I apologize if that seemed like a direct attack.

I still think Blue Mage should have been a tank, you know, so its icon would be BLUE? It would have been so much more awesome, as much as I love Gunbreaker, really wished Blue Mage was a Tank instead of a limited failure.

[Claire_Pendragon]

I still think Blue Mage should have been a tank, you know, so its icon would be BLUE? It would have been so much more awesome, as much as I love Gunbreaker, really wished Blue Mage was a Tank instead of a limited failure.

Im fairly confident BLU was originally being planned as a tank. (Made a lot of replies why, and how i came to such conclusions, but im too lazy to look for them, so here's an over simplified list)
1) Leaker proved BLU went through a lot of changes, even roles.
2) Leaker said they were a melee mage, that fit the melee DPS role at an earlier point in SB.
3) Leaker said they were meant to come out with the release of SB, to be along side RDM, but they didnt have time, it got put on hold.
4) SE thought about having a tank and/or healer for SB launch, Leaker didnt specify much on that.
5) RDMs DPS was the 1st DPS not to have a timer ticking down, with a DoT/buff they had to maintain. This makes me believe it was meant to be a healer. (With BLU as the tank, and SAM as the DPS)
6) BLU was almost finished with its animations/graphics near the start of SB.
7) BLU also had a weapon before.
8) The longest part of making a job is animations.
9) If they lost their melee weapon, which weapons did they have?

Final assumption... BLU was going to be a fending tank with the gunblade. (Also why i think the AF is blue for GNB) But they decided to over simplify the tanks and healers in ShB, and in turn tried to make BLU a DPS. A BLU tank that equipped spells into shells (i assume) would have probably been considered too complex for the new tank/healer simplifications. They took away the gunblade, so as to make a tank with it, and in turn reused the animations for Gunbreaker. Now with a weapon gone, how can BLU be a melee DPS? Simple, they dont get multiple weapons as they level up, and instead just make one or two really simple looking canes. Now they are casters only. Yoshida probably intended to throw away BLU, since GNB was going to be the new tank. But an employee threw out the idea of limited jobs (this was said in an interview about wanting to throw BLU away, and someone else suggested limited jobs) now they can keep all the hard work on animations, and BLU makes it into the game, rather than being a failed idea that was probably never going to be revisited again.
This also explains why all the "reasons" yoshida said "BLU couldnt work" were false, and never actually happened. Including the obvious wrongful statement of ~"It wouldnt be a true BLU, if it didnt have X features liek the FFXI version"~ (rephrased obviously) This logic was never applied to any of the other jobs, why was BLU the breaking point? Why was BLU required to be like FFXI, rather than more akin to other iterations of BLU? (And even then, they only took some of the features that made BLU likable in XI...?)

[Deceptus]

I agree with this and have tried to mention it myself as well. Personally, I love the idea of naming the job "Apothecary."

Ever since I heard it, I've been a big fan of Medicus, the Garlean name for their healers. Shortened to MED.

[MirronTulaxia]

A touch late, but every job isn't from FFT. If you want to expand it to FFTA/TA2 then you're basically just grabbing a bulk of the jobs in the game as it is. And every job in this game outside of Astrologian (which is a made up job, saying otherwise is kidding yourself) appears in multiple other games outside of Tactics. The jobs in FFXIV are simply well known/popular jobs, saying anything else is just being pretty silly.

And I really, really hope for a new healer. Whether that's a casting Chemist or Geomancer or Onmyouji or whatever else I'm sure it'll be interesting enough, even if I find the latter two more interesting aesthetically by leaps and bounds. I could see a Time Mage or Green Mage too, not even taking into account the possibility of a new job like we got with Astro.

Edit: Oh, on the Blue Mage stuff, honestly I agree with Yoshida that it wouldn't really be a proper Blue Mage if they just put it in a job like the rest. Blue Mages don't fit the normal boxes very well at all. My guess personally is that they tried to make a Blue Mage that fit a normal box and it just didn't work out.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Edit: Oh, on the Blue Mage stuff, honestly I agree with Yoshida that it wouldn't really be a proper Blue Mage if they just put it in a job like the rest. Blue Mages don't fit the normal boxes very well at all. My guess personally is that they tried to make a Blue Mage that fit a normal box and it just didn't work out.

The reason this logic doesnt work, is that over half of what we have in 14 dont follow the usual identities of the prior jobs. So why is BLU the only job thats being treated this way?
BLU was one of the least consistent of the entire series. You could just make a reskin of WAR, and make its enemy magic be limit breaks, and that would be accurate to prior games in the series.
BLU is also one of the few melee mages, and the most tanky of the melee mages. (With Mystic Knight being the most physically offensive of the melee mages)
BLU was pretty much the SMN of melee. SMN was the caster who was the best at AoE, and BLU was the melee who was the best at AoE. Most melee didnt AoE. But the one role that practically requires AoE in order to function at its role, is tank. Melee DPS dont actually NEED AoE DPS, other than to compete with caster AoE DPS (like the issues that came up with wanders palace speed runs back in 2.0) Every single job capable of melee in FF was capable of tanking in some fashion. And every single ranged job was capable of DPSing. Nearly half the ranged jobs were capable of healing/supporting as well. Many people want to define BLU solely based on certain abilities, like Lv5 Death. But thats like defining BLM by having Doom/Death spells. When it had plenty of others to choose from for the MMO version.

One of the series "hardest to kill jobs", is literally known for being a floor tank in this game.
DRGs wear the strongest armors, and have a "100% dmg reduction" ability. In the games they can use a provoke like ability, they are probably tied with FFTA/FFE BLU in being nearly unkillable.
DRGs spending so much time away from combat actually has them doing less DPS than any other job in the game, including WHM. (I think FF9 may be the exception, but i havent bothered leveling freya enough to find out for certain) But yoshida saw DRG as the highest single target dmg DPS in 1.23.
BLM was supposed to be the king of single target, but was instead regulated to king of AoE DPS... which BLM was only mediocre at AoE dmg in most games. With SMN filling the role of highest AoE dmg. But SMN was one of the worst AoE jobs when it came out, and was a DoT class...

PLD not every game uses heals, but FF1 even gave them cure. Had to cross class it, and it was really weak, due to PLD not having a magic stat. Lets also give them weapon skills. Lets also change how cover works. Lets make them work with threat, to fit an MMO build, but not have 2hand options, and armor/weapon break abilities, as that would be too similar to a DPS. (Despite 2hand could have been the sword oath replacement) Lets also give PLD positional attacks (in 1.23) because thats what PLD has always been about, hitting enemies from the side.
WAR this 'job' is mostly based on FF11s WAR, which both are technically a unique job that didnt exist prior. The job they are mostly akin to, is the Berserker jobs (which have been inconsistent) mixed with some PLD/viking abilities/themes. But for w/e reason was the healing tank... but this is an MMO, so it also couldnt be a DPS... Also had the highest HP. Also had some of the highest Aoe dmg in 1.23, because its an MMO, and not because it makes sense thematically. Lets also not give them a passive trait to lower dmg taken by a percentage, like in prior FFs for berserkers. But instead give it to PLD, for its tank stance and abilities.
MNK the job known for having the highest HP, and the lowest magic defense. has a good means of HP restoration compared to physical melee, and unlike other jobs, doesnt need gear. gear makes them weaker... but u know, this is an MMO, cant have a job hat doesnt need to gear up... the sole purpose of MNK. Lets also make it the elemental fist job. But cant use its traditional kick for AoE, which was set it apart from other physical melee. Also cant let MNK tank, since this is an MMO, despite being good at all non magical fights in FFs. Lets give them elemental fists, trying to be a weird magical melee.
DRG was allowed to use "jump" every turn, but here we cant have a cool move like jump as the basic GCD action, it must be on a CD, because MMO balance... (also cant make it a good defensive option either) cant allow a DPS to wear tank gear... gotta make its basic attacks the focus of the job.
WHM can heal enemies, revive undead, reflect enemy magic back at them, put reraise on people, didnt have AoE dmg spells, had mediocre melee dmg with hammers, due to lack of offensive spells till late game, but yet again, this is an MMO, cant have all of that, they need to fit the MMO healer role. Lets also make them druids. They are also the job with the strongest shields in the FF series. Lets instead make them the pure healer, and SCh the shield healer...
BLM can insta kill enemies, make them old, turn them into frogs/pigs, poison enemies while dealing normal elemental dmg to them. able to exploit elemental weaknesses, turn single target spells into aoe, at the cost of dividing the dmg among the targets. can use Ultima... But nope, must be a fire mage, who on rare occasions casts a poison called thunder, and blizzard to regain MP (instead of Osmose), because MMO playstyles/balance.
SCH could cast all tier1 magic from white and black, and could see enemy weaknesses. Rather than taking this, and amplifying it to something interesting, they just get the non elemental magic (ruin) and gains a bunch of poisons, while also getting a cute fairy... completely nonsensical, and uses up a bit of the Calculator themes., while staying healer only for MMO balance. Lets also make them the shield healer, despite having no history of doing this.
SMN all attacks should have been from the pet, and should have all been AoE. SMN always had something of a penalty for doing this, be it high MP cost, long cast times, or cast times with HP attached to the pet. (FFX had a good one, a mixture of everything, plus pets had single target options while building up to their massive burst AoE phase) but nope, MMO balance. Couldnt have any of the great healing summon options either.
BRD Cant have this job be anything like itself, this is a trinity MMO. (Also to balance ARC, since it lead to imbalance issues in the past, but they failed to balance it right anyways)
(similar logic to future jobs added)


BUT WE DRAW THE LINE FOR BLUE MAGE!!! ONE OF THE MOST INCONSISTENT JOBS OF THEM ALL, IT MUST BE LIKE FFXI'S VERSION OF BLU!!! BUT ALSO NOT!!!! THAT IS THE ONLY VERSION OF BLUE THAT IS THE TRUE VERSION OF BLU!!

this is why the logic isnt being applied equally here, and is complete BS. This is the same thing you see with politicians. They tell you a nice sounding lie, because theres an alternate reason for their actions, that either they dont feel like explaining, or because they feel you wouldnt understand. If it sounds illogical, chances are its a white lie, or in worst case scenario, full blown lie. Im not suggesting its for nefarious reasons, just that its not the truth.

[Tulzscha]

The reason this logic doesnt work, is that over half of what we have in 14 dont follow the usual identities of the prior jobs. So why is BLU the only job thats being treated this way?

I would guess because they learn their magic from monsters. To really do that justice it has to be different, and because of that it ends up being a messy mish-mash of spells which doesn't lend itself well to a proper MMO class. So they tried something different, which is cool I think. Kinda sucks for big time BLU fans but you can't fault them for trying something new and interesting.

[SWB]

They'll release psychic, no worries