Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Not true

As for your first statement, I stated twice why their sudden inclusion of hrothgar doesn't add up and is just PR babble.

Thats Concept art, so maybe they toyed with the idea, but thats not a Finalized Canon Illustration. Its not in-world/In-game.
And I dont know if thats the only thing you've looked at, but there are a few other pages that show Concept art for Beast Races, like the Au-ra were almost Full-dragon people, and the Lupin were illustrated. Sadly they didnt make it in HW, but made it in SB....as NPC characters and a few enemies.
So there was in interest in a beast race to btw.

Right, and thats a theory of yours, so Im asking if you have a solid source that brought you to that idea, or if your making it up because you think it makes sense even without confirmation. You say Confidently that its Corporate PR, but what makes you say that it is, how can we not take YoshiPs words to heart on this matter?

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

YoshiP clearly stated in an interview that the reasons they did not include male Viera and female Hrothgar were due to financial reasons, lacking man power and because of the time the missing genders would take to create. Source: https://www.usgamer.net/articles/fin...r-trust-system

As much as I would like to see the missing genders implemented I fear as long as those problems hold on, we won't hear much about them. Also they most likely will be very vague about the topic in the future altogether because of the backlash that happened after the Fanfest reveal.

They honestly have no reason to address it anymore then they already have.
If they have no Plans for it, they should just say so and put all this to rest....but they haven't, which means (As its also been said) it CAN still happen.
But if they Do say its happening, then they are locking themselves into a promise and expectation, and so if they CANT meet it for any reason, then they will face a backlash harder then they can recover from.

[Amnmaat]

Thats Concept art, so maybe they toyed with the idea, but thats not a Finalized Canon Illustration. Its not in-world/In-game.
And I dont know if thats the only thing you've looked at, but there are a few other pages that show Concept art for Beast Races, like the Au-ra were almost Full-dragon people, and the Lupin were illustrated. Sadly they didnt make it in HW, but made it in SB....as NPC characters and a few enemies.
So there was in interest in a beast race to btw.

Right, and thats a theory of yours, so Im asking if you have a solid source that brought you to that idea, or if your making it up because you think it makes sense even without confirmation. You say Confidently that its Corporate PR, but what makes you say that it is, how can we not take YoshiPs words to heart on this matter?

One of the Au ra concept arts turned out to be exactly like what ended up in XIV. So again, one of the male Viera concept arts would/will end up what we get in the end. You're picking at straws to make it seem like male Viera don't exist canonically when they obviously do, both in writing and visually; they just have to decide which concept art to use.

I know how PR and marketing works, don't to the very minute details. Not only was YoshiP's response in writing only (which signals to it being a carefully crafted PR/marketing statement) but it also hides his how he really feels about how corporate forced him to add a beastial race. Furthermore, notice how he didn't explain why they chose a beastial race like hrothgar at the Japanese fanfest. The tell tale signs are clear if you understand PR.

I do think FFXIV suffers terribly from the lack of a major rival. Blizzard sat on their hands for years despite many requests for broader character customisation in World of Warcraft yet to their credit they updated their character models across the board once already and are set to do so again during their upcoming expansion.

I'd also note that very few companies are going to actually put forward anything other than carefully manufactured PR statements in the face of controversy - and the missing gender situation is very much a controversy.

Yes, notice how this was a written letter, passed through PR, marketing, and corporate to paint the company in the best of lights when they realized we preferred a complete race as opposed to 2 incomplete ones.

As for FFXIV suffering from lack of competition, yeah, as the try to gobble up players from other mmos they end up not listening to what the current FFXIV players want. In one interview Yoshida talks about how they wanted Hrothgar to be the "ugly and strong" race to be a counter to Viera's beautiful/elegant look but let's be real here, Roegadyn is already that. And they act as if male Au ra can't represent that as well

Roegadyn even have a lot of cat/feline features to them. From the lion eyes to the cat like hair




Roegadyn, specially the Hellsguard clan was based off cat or thereof. They even get one of miqo'te's hairstyles.


Just irks me when they force Yoshida to come out with these carefully scripted excuses.

[SturmChurro]

Not true

Exactly! It's official, and we already know something like this is what people want.

Please add male viera with Omega M's body type or the body type shown in these concept arts

[Amnmaat]

Exactly! It's official, and we already know something like this is what people want.

Haha those are just extreme versions. In art and design they always ask for the extremes first to see if there's something they can take from those extremes and then settle in the middle. But I get what you were doing, Senn kept that hideousness in the front page for some personal reason.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

You're picking at straws to make it seem like male Viera don't exist canonically when they obviously do, both in writing and visually; they just have to decide which concept art to use.

notice how this was a written letter, passed through PR, marketing, and corporate to paint the company in the best of lights when they realized we preferred a complete race as opposed to 2 incomplete ones.

Thats not what I said, I said we've never seen them. Thats just been a consistent thing in every final Fantasy game. Ive never suggested they never exist like Viera are an all Female race or something.
Why would they need to explain why they made a beastal race "Like the Hrothgar"? Would they need to explain in detail or something why they Made Bangaa as well? It was explained that it was agreed that adding a Beast Race would give a more Diverse Option, which is true. Is, that somehow not a good reason to add a beast race?

That just sounds silly, why would anybody or any company ever think any playerbase would 'Prefer' 2 'incomplete' races as suppose to a "Complete" one?
Roegadyn and Male Au ra arn't exactly what people would call 'Ugly'. Now a Beast on the other hand would be seen as Ugly. In my mindset I can see a 'Beauty & the Beast' idea going here.
And no man, lol Roegadyn do not have Cat-like Features. A weird gravity Defying Haircut, facial hair and stuff is not a detail of a Cat. You can make those eyes with any of the races, just change pupil size, add black eyeshadow, and change colors.
I will admit the Sea Wolves have Weird Noses.

Exactly! It's official, and we already know something like this is what people want.

Its not in-game yet. So its not Official.
Lupin are in the game though, so they are official.

Haha those are just extreme versions. In art and design they always ask for the extremes first to see if there's something they can take from those extremes and then settle in the middle. But I get what you were doing, Senn kept that hideousness in the front page for some personal reason.

Thats concept art. You make concepts to build an idea, You hash out those ideas based on a concept.
They are often unrefined because the artist is still exploring ideas and building. And they are often not representative of the final product.

[SturmChurro]

Haha those are just extreme versions. In art and design they always ask for the extremes first to see if there's something they can take from those extremes and then settle in the middle. But I get what you were doing, Senn kept that hideousness in the front page for some personal reason.

Can you imagine if they actually came out looking like that? After all this time, and that's what we get.. LOL!

[Amnmaat]

Thats not what I said, I said we've never seen them. Thats just been a consistent thing in every final Fantasy game. Ive never suggested they never exist like Viera are an all Female race or something.
Why would they need to explain why they made a beastal race "Like the Hrothgar"? Would they need to explain in detail or something why they Made Bangaa as well? It was explained that it was agreed that adding a Beast Race would give a more Diverse Option, which is true. Is, that somehow not a good reason to add a beast race?

That just sounds silly, why would anybody or any company ever think any playerbase would 'Prefer' 2 'incomplete' races as suppose to a "Complete" one?
Roegadyn and Male Au ra arn't exactly what people would call 'Ugly'. Now a Beast on the other hand would be seen as Ugly. In my mindset I can see a 'Beauty & the Beast' idea going here.
And no man, lol Roegadyn do not have Cat-like Features. A weird gravity Defying Haircut, facial hair and stuff is not a detail of a Cat. You can make those eyes with any of the races, just change pupil size, add black eyeshadow, and change colors.
I will admit the Sea Wolves have Weird Noses.



Its not in-game yet. So its not Official.
Lupin are in the game though, so they are official.



Thats concept art. You make concepts to build an idea, You hash out those ideas based on a concept.
They are often unrefined because the artist is still exploring ideas and building. And they are often not representative of the final product.

Concept are is not infinitely concept though, it eventually becomes official. Notice that the final concept of Lupin ended up being what we got

Also notice the level of detail is similar to that of the "last" male Viera concept


It's not in those random unfinished "bust" versions.
The detailed version is what would get approved into the game, as that Lupin slide shows.

As for the rest of your statement; I clearly explained why the company would craft a carefully crafted written letter to present to the community. It went through PR, Marketing, and corporate before being put out; so that it would be vetted. If the decision to add hrothgar was so clear it wouldn't have taken them 2 months to craft a reasoning, much less having to present it in written form.

The reasoning they give didn't even make much sense, they talk about adding variety, but wasn't Au ra that variety already? It was the dev's chance to add whatever kind of race they ever wanted. To sacrifice the male side of Viera like that was no accident, it was an opportunity which presented itself starting with the Blizzcon debacle and terrible expansion, the closing of Guild wars 2, and the stagnation of Elders scrolls.

If you don't see the holes in their reasoning then that's on you, I see them clearly.

[Halivel]

Great kids; it's also great that you follow the naming conventions. I wonder what naming conventions Male Viera would use, will it be similar to female Viera or deviate in some ways? I think it would be great if the male ones used vowels to because it's important to say their name loudly and clearly since they live isolated. Anyway I'm really looking forward to a complete male + female Viera race, I really don't like this idea that an mmo race should exist without both genders, it's such an outdated concept based on outdated gender roles and outdated player expectations. Just because the playerbase wants to play cute-sexy female Viera doesn't mean they don't also want to play cute-sexy male Viera. What gets me the most is that the Viera/Hrothgar decision was a corporate level decision and not so much an artistic one, that's what really grinds my gears.

Naming conventions are probably either similar or same, though it depends on culture, and we still don't know enough about it even from other games where Viera were presented (mainly because there was no need for it, since male Viera were never shown).

As far as we know, until puberty girls and boys aren't distinquishable - it does, in fact, raise another question (and I don't remember if it's explained anywhere or not): when lore stands that males and females aren't distinquishable until puberty, what exactly it stands for? That they don't know the gender at all? Or that they know, but since they are still kids, boys are just allowed to live in village until puberty? The answer can affect naming noticeably.

If we imply that they can't tell the sex until puberty at all, then there are 3 scenarios I can think about:

a) there is no male/female name concept among Viera to begin with;
b) they change their names once they step into puberty when it becomes clear who's who.
c) they do it similar to Tumet tribe (Au Ra, Xaela), where children don't have names at all until their 10th summer, when they need to pass the trial, and if they are succefful at it - they get the name and are allowed into the tribe. This can be adapted to Viera as well, but without a trial, just no names until they reach puberty.

And if we imply they can tell sex but just allowed to live in villages before reaching puberty, then there's no any real issues with naming, and boys and girls can be named as in any other race (though I personally like non-gendered names concept). In this case the name question would be just what names sound like, without the deep need to consider other factors.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Concept are is not infinitely concept though, it eventually becomes official. Notice that the final concept of Lupin ended up being what we got

Also notice the level of detail is similar to that of the "last" male Viera concept


It's not in those random unfinished "bust" versions.
The detailed version is what would get approved into the game, as that Lupin slide shows.

As for the rest of your statement; I clearly explained why the company would craft a carefully crafted written letter to present to the community. It went through PR, Marketing, and corporate before being put out; so that it would be vetted. If the decision to add hrothgar was so clear it wouldn't have taken them 2 months to craft a reasoning, much less having to present it in written form.

The reasoning they give didn't even make much sense, they talk about adding variety, but wasn't Au ra that variety already? It was the dev's chance to add whatever kind of race they ever wanted. To sacrifice the male side of Viera like that was no accident, it was an opportunity which presented itself starting with the Blizzcon debacle and terrible expansion, the closing of Guild wars 2, and the stagnation of Elders scrolls.

If you don't see the holes in their reasoning then that's on you, I see them clearly.

I said " they are often not representative of the final product." Often does not mean Always.
But also, unless I missed it and you can show me a screenshot, the Lupin did not come out that Muscular, so thats one design choice that got altered. That or just covered up. Also in game they were given taller ears.

Your still looking at Concept art, these are rough sketches that were sketched up, and still to this day, un-used. If they were still gonna pursue Male Viera, I bet they would look much different then these Conceptual Sketches. And if you didnt know, a more detailed sketch or a Fullbody vs a Bust sketch, is still a sketch. Your drawing a conclusion that because the bigger more detailed Lupin Sketch Mostly made it into the game, that the final slightly more detailed sketch of the Male Viera would make it into the game. Just because it might look more detailed, doesn't mean its the final or even decided concept. Nothing your seeing there is definitive, if it was, then it would already be in the game instead of Au-ra, or even back in SB.

What do you mean it took them 2 months to craft a reasoning? Wasn't it explained in his 1st interview? Which was shortly after the fanfest?
Poor Yoshi had to do Back to Back Interviews, ALL of which asked about the 'Locked Genders"

How does adding a Beast race for Diversity make no sense? Do you not see how Au-ra, or even Viera are not really a Diverse option compared to the Hrothgar? Those are still Humanoids; they look like humans, they have familiar human faces. Only thing that really sets them apart from an External perspective is skin tone; which you can change to different colors and shades, and a few features like Horns and a tail or tall ears. Meanwhile the Hrothgar are a full-fledged Beast Race. They do Not have Human faces, they have Animal Muzzles, which is 100% different and diverse from another Humanoid. Looking at their roster of choices, they had nothing But Human Faced Humanoids, nothing outside of that in terms of Character Creation. Nothing Alien, nothing outside of a Familiar looking Human Face. Even Guild Wars and WoW had Non-traditional Humanoids, and they also had Beastmen.
Yes...it WAS no Accident. They already "explained" why they did what they did. Im not gonna waste my time retyping common knowledge that some people choose to ignore.
Also, what is this about Guild Wars 2 closing? Its still going. So what are you talking about?

No, I see no holes currently. You haven't presented a sound enough explanation or argument to make me see it. All Im getting is what you Think you see and understand, and how it doesn't work for you personally. Which has not provided a good thought provoking mindset. They said adding Hrothgar presents a More Diverse Option. Which is does, thats a hardcore fact. So Im not seeing your issue here.
And Concept art is not always a representation of the final Product. Just because an image is bigger and has more detail to it, and is a fullbody drawing, doesn't mean they will for sure go with that idea.